skippydiesel

My point is simple - In Day VFR conditions , (prevalent in the whole video) lights of any description, do almost nothing to enhance conspicuousity. They have but three functions; To place an additional load on the aircraft's electrical generation/storage system Place an additional financial cost (acquisition of frivolous/luxury item)on the aircraft owner Bragging rights for the deluded pilot/owner Note: I support the right of all humans to engage in delusion, as long as it has no negative impacts on others (this would be an example).😈

I wonder why the featured Jab had his Nav lights on all the time - just an added load on his electrical system for no galn.😈

When I started flight training @ 40, 60 minutes +/- , once or twice, a week (as my instructor and his farm activities allowed) was about my limit. Any more and it was wasted teaching, that had to be repeated. I found it exhausting & exhilarating. I have no idea how you were able to do 2 x 90 minutes / day and the training stick. 30++ years later, I can now fly for 6 hrs in day (longest trip to date) but its still a challenge in a small, twitchy aircraft. 😈

On building & the unexpected time / $ it may take; About 15 years ago, I purchased an old ATEC Zephyr - Great aircraft! She was flyable but looked a little care worn. As my knowledge of the aircraft increased, it turned out that various bits were well past the factory recommended "time" in service. I decided to do a complete in/out make over/refurbish, on the bird. I estimated 1-2 months & about $10,000 AU. About this time, I retired, so was able to devote up to 7 days /week and anything from 6 - 12 hrs + /day. I guess I averaged at least 5 + day's/week and likly 8 +hrs /day It took all of 12 months and probably $15,000 AU. Some of the unexpected factors were: Cost of importing the Stewart paint & fabric system from the US. Australian importing add-ons can be a bit of a shocker All the little essential hard to budget for bits & pieces eg special temperature controlled iron for shrinking the fabric, quantity of sandpaper, etc The shear length of time / hard graft, to remove fabric & paint. The learning curve required to replace the fabric. Purchase of a high volume, Honda powered, compressor, to suit the Stewart application system. Built a temporary spray booth with forced, filtered, heated, through air, ventilation and wall / ceiling strip lighting PPE for toxic dust & paint spray I already had the 4 kva generator to power tools, lights, fan & heating Etc, etc. The reward ; The project got me through the potential for post retirement blues . The satisfaction in the remade/new aircraft, that was now safe (particularly the fabric) and flying better than before. If I had moved straight to another (similar) project, within the next 1-2 years, I could probably do it in 1/2 the time (skilled up) and now that I have invested in various tools, a few $K less. The take home message; Get some advice on exactly how long it will take to build or refurbish. Ask & cost (if you don't have them) what tools will be required. Budget for the project PLUS a significant factor for additional consumable etc Think carefully about the estimated time, against your other commitments. 😈

Thanks gents - I think you have made my position abundantly clear - In Australia we expect fees & charges to be divulged up front. Not hidden in some difficult navigate web site, third party or other provider. ERSA is the proper place for the fee schedule, no matter how "eye watering" 😈

Should my Quixotic tilting yield a positive result, for all private pilots, I hope you will have the time to benefit.😈

I apologise if my frustration is showing, however I don't actually know to which response you are referring - please quote or specify.😈

You may like to reflect on the time & effort you have expended on the above, slight arrogant, response, when you could have spent a similar amount of time/effort in positively supporting my (& apparently your) position and still gone about your " more important" activities. I will lead, if I must, however a leader requires followers/supporters, otherwise he is but a Don Quixote, a joke to be ignored. How about suggesting a person/position to contact, even a petition, etc?😈

Ye Gads! - All I am asking for is, that airfield owners put their fees in ERSA. How hard can it be to performer this simple task, once per annum???? Almost all of your response is about the poor bureaucrat, that might be held to account for his/her Councils decisions - Mate that is their job! "...when someone demands a service that is either just solely benefiting the enquirer, or a very small number of affected people," If its a reasonable enquiry/request, that benefits just one tax/ratepayer, it should be done! - no procrastination, no delay - end of story. What I am asking for is likly to reduce the enquiries ie benefit the owner/user. Even you might benefit ,from seeing the cost of using an airfield , in a single easily accessible location - ERSA! 😈

As above - More apathy. I am not about leadership - I am about a popular movement to improve the private piloting environment. When will Australians start to understand, that our government(s)/bureaucracy are staffed by public servants ie WE EMPLOY THEM. They hold their jobs at our pleasure. By not questing, you empower & embolden bureaucracy to impose whatever they wish on us, knowing we will "kowtow" to every ruling. When there is a government over reach (ASIC) you just accept it as part of life. When there is a failure of fair trading (informe the pilot of airfield charges) you shrug your shoulders and going looking for the information elsewhere. Apathy Rules! 😈

All true , hardly a good reason for not attempting to improve the situaton - in short apathetic.😈

"Please explain" When someone (me) identifies a lack (no airfield fee schedule) in a vital document (ERSA) and starts to try & do something about it, the overwhelming response is indifference, followed by negativity and the occasional look warm supporter. Why is there not 100% support of having as much relevant flight planning information as possible, in the one document (ERSA)???? Would you not preferer to (A) know what your costs will be up front (B) have the option/choice to land elsewhere to minimise/avoid the cost? But noooooo you would rather search through generic documents, contact various parties, who may or may not have the information. How many of you, don't bother to find out what the fee schedule is, just accept that there will be a bill (could be a shocker) and pay up without so much as a whimper? Am I missing something here, what is the problem with trying to get airfield owner/operators to post their fees in ERSA ??

Hi Ian, Not that it matters, I have no recollection of a flyable Cherokee based at The Oaks - Only an occasional C180 & resident C 172 RG (which doesn't seem to get out all that often). If have no issue with any person wishing to fly the aircraft of their choice, alone or with Pax. The topic of this thread "drifted " somewhat to this statemnt by BernieM - "I am hoping for the increase to 3 passengers to actually happen." I asked why, with an observation, to the effect, that most pilots fly alone - extra seats are not so very much more attractive, than the standard RAA two seat arrangement ie even one Pax is a rare event. Inherent in this observation is the addition purchase & operating cost of (usually) empty seats. You make a good point with "Its nice not having to worry about each kilogram when deciding what to take on a trip !" - I am always very careful with W & B in my tiny 2 seat aircraft. It would indeed be nice to just throw the weekend camping gear in the bird & take off with full fuel, knowing you are nowhere near the W & B limits. You may be a wealth individual that has little concern for the running cost of your Cherokee - if so great. However most of us are not so blest, so we fly relativly low operating cost aircraft (usually small 2 seaters) I have just returned from an afternoons flight around the "patch" 1.7 hrs in beautifully smooth (cold) air, at something less than 15L ULP/hr (varying true airspeeds >130 knot Cruise). The total fuel cost in the region of $48 - unfortunately no Pax to share the awful cost. Should I ever need something approaching your Cherokees carrying capacity - I could just hire a suitable aircarft (I have a PPL). Since transitioning to RAA (15 years ago?) the need has never eventuated - I almost always fly alone.😈

Very true! FYI; I have contacted; Fair Trading NSW - They agree that the fees should be readily available to the customer/pilot ie it not reasonable just to say there will be a charge , the customer must (in most cases) know what the charge will be ahead of commiting to the purchase of the good/service. Unfortunatly they were a tad bewilder by the whole thing & suggested contacting Airservices. Airservices /NAIPS - They think its a CASA issue as its CASA that overseas what goes into ERSA (airfield oversight) and Air Services do the publishing. Recomened I put my (our?) concerns in writing. CASA - Sympathetic but similar to sort of response to Air Services - request to put in writing. I will write to both Federal organisations (Airservices insist they are not actually a Federal Government body - QUANGO?). I have a life, so the letter writing may take a few days - week. At the very least there will be an answer of some sort. 😈

I take heart from your rather "low key" acknowledgment that it would be "desirable" for airfield fees to be published in ERSA. I would very much doubt that the the intent of the Law, covering posting fees for goods & services, has been met by what is usually a difficult to navigate Council web site that also includes all that Councils fees (ie not specific to their airport(s), would constitute open & easily accessible. Fair Trading departments are (to the best of my knowledge) State based. I will call the NSW department & have chat about this however to get meaningful ie comprehensive response to this issue, will likly be in the hands of the Federal Gov.😈

My limited research suggests that the Councils (most numerous airfield owners) review their fee structures on an annual basis. Should this be Condorcet, there would not be a problem with a 6 month lead time for publication. "......they will say you have missed the deadline for the next update" Failure to meet a deadline for inclusion, can not be a policy, as your statement sugests, rather a failure of the individual submitter. As such is not something I, you or NAIPS can do anythig about. I will contact NAIPS regarding your 6 month lead time - still seems improbable to me for a document, that by intent, must be as up to date as possible.😈

Let us know how things "pan out"😈

Yet another supporter of not disclosing airfield fees in the official document ERSA - Please make your argument for this support of non compliance with consumer law.😈

If it takes 6 months it will reflect the owners annual update (if any). There are airfield owners who post their fee schedule in ERSA. I wonder how they manage this astonishing feet of compliance with consumer expectation/law? Got to say, for a document that has 4 publications/annum, specifically to remain current, the idea that it takes 6 months to make a change/enty sounds a little implausable. Am I correct in my impression, that you are a supporter of not disclosing airfield fee structures? If so please, make your argument for not posting your airfield fee structure in ERSA. 😈

Hi BurnieM, Not sure what your point is, other than to show another airport not posting their aircraft movement fees in ERSA. I could not find any fees on the web page you supplied. Even if I had, this does not change the thrust of my argument that fees should be in ERSA, not on some obscure web site or with a third party informant. Are you supporting or against my position on this? 😈

Hi Turbs - No offence intended -it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of a warm body in every seat of your Cherokee Sixe. Your questionable experince is 180 degrees of mine and I sugest most private pilots BUT good on yah! if you can get 5 Pax for most flights. "There's really not a lot of point in comparing two aircraft built for different application then one person slagging the guy who's perfectly happy in another application." This is wilful miss reading of the statements made, which only gave the opinion & experince of most private pilots, regarding seat filling. 😈

If the customer (pilot) must search for the fee/price/charge information, the intent of the law requiring readily available pre knowledge of the cost, has not been met. You can see the price of vehicle fuel as you approach the service station. The restaurant menu charges are on the door/window as you enter or on the menu itself. Your grocery items all have clearly labeled cost. An investigation service eg my car pulls to the right when breaking, may not have a firm cost however the service provide is obliged to give an estimate (could be an hourly charge with parts ??) when asked for - this should be in writing. The prudent/professional service provider will contact the customer, to advise of any increase in the estimate, with justifications, prior to completing the work. Every service or good you consume/use, that incurs a charge/fee, is obliged to advise you of the cost before you commit. The advice method should be such that the provider can legitimately & demonstrably claim the the customer did know, before accepting the service/good. NOTE: I am not ingesting that every good/service provider meets the standard. This is no excuses for not trying to improve the situaton (fees in ERSA). 😈

Why? - Do you have a hearing/vision impairment? Are you concerned that the starter system will remain engaged? 😈

While a faithful reproduction of an official document ERSA is as valid as the origional - additional information / modifications does not fall under this accepted understanding.😈

Nothing could be further from the truth. Is not the cost of landing an aircraft at an airfield an operational matter?? What central information source would you have the information published in, if not in ERSA??? I believe that there is a legal requirement for ALL providers of goods/services, within Australia, to make fess/payments for the same, to be readily available to the potential customer/consumer. By readily available, I mean the customer (pilot planning a trip) should not need to search for the information ie it should "stand out like dogs balls". The appropriate location for such information should be contained within the pilots panning documents in the one location ie ERSA. There are airports that publish their access (landing/parking/overnight etc) fees in ERSA, there are very many more who do not. While there are many (non aviation) businesses in contravention of the Law, this is not a valid excuse for not drawing attention to such transgressions and trying to get it put right. What is the malaise in Australian private pilots, that they accept with barely a whimper, unjust, illogical charges & treatment (ASIC & airport owners not making landing fees readily available)???😈