skippydiesel

3 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

Did the 5 year rubber replacement on the Legend last year. I just ordered the hose from Floods and was done with it. Toohard chasing odd bits for Rotax engines and then you might have “under spec” parts that would automatically get the blame if anything happens.

Fair comment, absolutely the safest way to go and as always your choice.

Personally I dont like being taken for a mug/ride by a greedy service provider, selling at a probable mark up of plus 500% .Trying to hid this by quoting on a "centimetre" rate , rather than the usual metre rate. The market should in the this, and all similar transactions, rule - there is a heap of products out there, meeting the same or higher specs, from reputable service providers, at a fraction of the cost.

Don't get me wrong B Flood provide a great service but sometimes they take our loyalty a little too much for granted. Your rubber replacement (assuming you sourced all from Floods) will have cost you several times what a little initiative would have achieved by shopping around for those items  available from alternative suppliers eg Repco who are agents for Gates coolant & fuel hose (that I have relied on for 20 years or so)

From my perspective its Forums like this that give you & I the opportunity to shop elsewhere.

With luck & assistance from Forum members, I will be able to provide a costed list of alternative oil hose  products, within the next 10 days or so.

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

As a rough rule if your cruise speed is below 110 Kts you don't need CS or in flight adjustable. Weight, cost and complexity  are the downside. Schneider Trophy racing seaplanes had fixed pitch wooden props. I was very impressed with a kiev prop fitted to one plane a flew a bit. Wood is down a few % on efficiency because you can't thin the sections as well as composite.  I've flown U/Ls with CS and of course they perform better but the plane was fast and had retracts as well.  Nev

If I recall Schneider Trophy racing seaplanes didn't need CS props because there is little limit/obstructions when taking off so climb performance (fine  pitch) is sacrificed for high speed cruise (course pitch)

4 minutes ago, aro said:

Rotax oil pressure is all inside the engine. The hoses see suction not pressure - so you need to be looking at the negative pressure ratings.

 

It also makes it important to respect minimum bend radius, to minimize the possibility the hose will collapse.

Thanks for the reminder Aro - all the hoses I have been checking out will have excellent negative pressure capability  - see the latest Hardy Spicer / Gates stuff referred to above.

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

You are correct, I erred with insufficient research - Gates do indeed manufacture a wide range of industrial and hydraulic hoses.

I have only ever used Gates hoses and belts - Aeroquip have always been my preferred hydraulic hose - but I just realised I have a pallet of Gates high pressure spiral wire hydraulic hose in my workshop! (acquired in a minesite surplus auction).

 

Gates manufacture a high temperature transmission oil cooler return hose that is rated to 149°C. Hardy Spicer are the Gates industrial hose supplier.

 

https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/hoses-fittings/gates-hose/

 

(See "MegaTech 250" hose in this catalogue) https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/D1_Hyd_Hose.pdf

 

!T - thanks for that. The MegaTech 250 has a wire braid, so I doubt its application as Rotax 9 oil hose (weight, push on connection, ease of cutting to length). However the catalogue also has  a range of fibre braid hoses that may be suitable (Page D:1-15 ) G3h & GTH, both of which have very similar attributes with GTH possibly having lighter weight.

I will check out availability and price next week.

A tad tangential but I believe that Gates do in fact have an industrial section - I have perused their hydraulic hoses (mainly for trucks)  - all steel reinforced, so I would expect to be heavy, stiff and probably not compatible with a push on/hose clamp application eg Gates High Temp Flexline Hose.

Rotax engine oil should not go over 130C and pressures max out at about 120 psi when cold/start. So Gates 27066 will probably do the job - just. The margin of safety is a little slim for my liking.

The Rotax supplied CONTI M4M-2  is good for 135C normal and up to 150C short duration and up to 1088 psi - well over any operating situation.

55 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Berendsen Fluid Power will be able to supply Eaton Aeroquip hose.

 

https://www.berendsen.com.au/about-us/locations/

 

Gates has a search system on their website for their distributors. You will probably need to find an Industrial Gates distributor.

 

https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/where-to-buy

 

I have always found Aeroquip and Gates hoses to be very satisfactory products, provided the conditions in use, do not exceed the hose specifications.

 

1T - Gates 27066 PN 33193359 should be available through Repco.

Like you I have always used Gates products for fuel lines and coolant hoses but at this stage never for oil.

I will check out Berendsen Fluid Power

Just found another possible contender ; Eaton Aeroquipe FC598-08  ($10.80/ft making it about $30/m not sure if this is US or AU)- Trying for an Australian supplier.

Sales persons & finding for myself alternative suggestions to CONTI M4M-2  I have found the following possible substitutes;

Gates

• G3H - PN 3319-4261
• GTH - PN 3319-3317
• 27066 PN 33193359

Continental

• Conti L5-1  ½
• Conti L5-2  ½

Pirtek

• LP HT-08

Min Specifications:

• Engine oil compatible
• Temperature (continuose) 130C
• Pressure (continuous) 125 psi
• Good flexibility
• Abrasion resistant
• Compatible with push on/hose camp attachment 
• Light weight (probably excludes metal reinforcing)

Your constructive comments will be most welcome.

12 hours ago, onetrack said:

The hose is in the Contitech catalogue, so I don't know why you can't locate it on the dealer websites.

 

Quite often, though, the search engines on many websites are utterly useless. Google will find it every time, using the correct search words.

 

https://merlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/RubberHosesGeneralCatalog_en_low.pdf

Thanks for that 1T - it seems that Merlett is a relativly recent Continental acquisition and the contents of the catalogue may not be available in Australia.

1 hour ago, Agamemnon said:

A cross-country endorsement requires a minimum of 10 hours dual + 2 hours solo + a flight test. So the cost is roughly based on that plus other purchases including maps, flight computer etc. Whats with this minimum 10 hrs ? - demonstrable proficiency should be the criteria, not hours

 

Passenger endorsement requires 10 hours PIC time + a flight test. If you do any solo flying once you've received your RPC then these hours count towards this total, along with any PIC hours you already obtained getting your RPC/Cross country endorsement.

 

If you can't afford $12-13k to do the training then there's no point getting a license anyway, how are you going to afford to fly afterwards? Ongoing costs can be significant even just to stay current. I have heard this elitist statement befor - are you a charity that you can give money away on request?

The earning of Pilots license/certificate should never be based on hours, always on proficiency.

Some, like myself, took well over 20 hrs to achieve our PPL, others do it in less than half the time (& cost).

Of course the money matters, as it should. Most of us want to feel we have received good value for are hard earned dollars and start to feel there may be some sort of a rort going on, when it is suggested that minimum hrs become the main critter for achieving an endorsement.

37 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Passenger endorsement is rediculouse.

ALL TRAINEES start with a passenger & have to keep that ' passenger ' untill SOLO is achieved.

spacesailor

Absolutely agree - should just be awarded as part of basic training - no additional cost

Weird thing - when I Google CONTI-OIL -M4M-2 I get a spec sheet for the hose BUT when I put he same info into any of the Continental/Conti web sites I get a big fat 0

51 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Contitech has an Australian division and I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to supply hose from their M4M-2 range from their sales/distribution centres.

 

https://www.continental-industry.com/en/topnavi/company/location-profiles/australia

 

Thanks for that 1T - somehow didn't find that Conti address when I did my Google search - have written to the Sydney office. let you know if they can supply @ price.

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

They probably all go to Pirtek or their local no name hydraulic shop.

Yeah well the Pirtek LP HT-08 product appears to have the correct specs/characteristics and the price is also very good at $31.75/m - anyone actually used it?

Don't tell me this is a subject that no one has experience in/opinion on/advice to give . 

Every Rotax 9 driver/maintainer MUST change rubber (hoses) every 5 years and builders using Rotax 9's will be purchasing this sort of hose ------ soooo why the silence?.

15 minutes ago, onetrack said:

You can acquire double or triple pass crossflow radiators, where the tanks have restrictions that divert the coolant flow to keep criss-crossing the core. These double or triple pass radiators are more efficient because they keep the coolant in the airflow for longer.

In too many radiators, the coolant flow is too fast to permit maximum coolant heat transfer. That's why removing a thermostat usually doesn't cure overheating problems, it usually only worsens them.

Seem to me that most overheating problems, relate to lack of air flow, rather than coolant "speed".

Experimental set ups aside - got a cooling problem -  First check air flow restrictions then  external "core" blockage which  could be anything from damaged fins, insect or dirt build up.

Air flow restrictions - body damage/ accessories that partially block air flow - fix/remove. Paper/plastic/straw/etc - manually remove

Damaged/flattened fins  can sometimes be partially rehabilitated using a thin flat blade screw driver or even a bit flat metal out of a windscreen wiper GENTLY& PROGRESSIVLY  return the flatted fins to something like their original position.

Drive through a swarm of bees/grass hoppers/ blowing chaff/etc and your radiator leading surface is likely to become blocked in whole or part - best to reverse blow with compressed air (access can be a problem requiring removal of radiator).

Dust/chaff/insects can slowly build up over time progressively reducing radiator efficacy use above treatment. Sometimes using a brush with air to disturbed the material works best. Worst cases may require "rodding" with a flat wire such as found in some windscreen wiper refills.

Be careful about using high pressure water instead of air- very easy to damage radiator fins and sometimes the water will cause the material to swell preventing wash out.

After that consider a radiator flush to remove internal coolant flow restriction - the habitual use of tap /dam or contaminated water will eventually block internal cores.

Personally - when I have a fully functional radiator, on a ground vehicle/engine, I cover the inlet side with fiberglass fly screen material. The minimal air flow restriction that the fly screen imposes is nothing compared with the above scenarios - Leave the bottom of the fly screen loose, the continually movement in the air flow will tend to "shed" insect bodies & the like. I have not had an overheating problem, due to a contaminated radiator in 45 + years of driving & maintaining.

On 18/01/2022 at 8:06 PM, RFguy said:

geez that grass is green.

Got to be the West Coast of Ireland🤣

On 09/01/2022 at 11:07 AM, Agamemnon said:

Nope, cross country is around another $4k. Passenger endorsement maybe another $600-$1k depending on whether you do it before or after cross-country. These costs include all flight hours and required purchases except for an iPad and EFB subscription (which is another $1k plus potentially).

Wow!! "cross country is around another $4k Passenger endorsement maybe another $600-$1k" So that  makes what I would consider to be a useful certificate $12-13K. The basic $8K didn't seem so unreasonable but I cant see how the additional endorsement can cost an additional $5K - how can this be justified??

6 minutes ago, onetrack said:

There's some useful cooling information (car-based) in the link below. A couple of the major factors in efficient cooling appears to be in fin design and tube shape. 

 

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.824.1312&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Makes sense to me.

Ah! BUT orientation of the tank/tubes (ref your statement & my Q) should have very little difference on performance. You can pretty much put a Rotax radiator in any position and get the same efficiency SUBJECT TO GOOD AIR FLOW.

This holds good for all radiators - I have converted a Ford Falcon cross flow radiator (tank on each side horizontal tubes) to vertical (tank top/bottom tubes vertical - did the same job as when in in its previous orientation.

Radiator orientation has more to do with space availably than physics.

Have been researching availability & price of 12mm (1/2")  oil hose for a Rotax 9 here in Australia.

Original hose fitted, is a Continental from the CONTI M4M-2 range. So far cant find a supplier in Australia - I live in hope.

Of course B Flood will supply (dont know the brand) at an astonishing $1.13/cm (who in the engineering world uses centimetres???)  which translates into the more common pricing expression of $ 112.20/m

My local Pirtek will supply  LP HT-08  oil hose that appears to meet /exceed the same specifications of CONTI M4M-2 for$31.75/m

What are you using ?these days  and of course who is the supplier ? and at what cost?

52 minutes ago, RFguy said:

--------------------------we want crossflow and most of the the motoX  are top to bottom, (some are X flow) . --------------------------

 

I

Why??

Please explained/expand.

7 hours ago, RFguy said:

I've found a mfr that makes some small industrial heat  exchanger high performance radiators, all copper, lots of specs. affordable.

https://www.alphacool.com/alphacool-nexxxos-v.2-radiatoren

https://www.alphacool.com/download/ENG_1015512_NexXxoS_V2_XT45_240.pdf

https://www.alphacool.com/shop/radiators/radiators/240-mm/20477/alphacool-nexxxos-xt45-full-copper-x-flow-240mm-radiator

 

They'll  fit nicely in the airflow in the cowling inlets with a minor enlargement. All shapes and sizes off the shelf, about $100 per unit.  But they weigh a kilo each. alot of copper. 

 

Hmmm! How will they go in a high vibration environment?? 

My sons dirt bikes have all had 2 radiators (one each side of frame) designed for pretty harsh environment. One even has something like a computer fan for when he is going too slow for good air flow. Motor bike gear usually transfers quite well to small aircraft.

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

no change of heart from me Skippy, just thought you might like some more ideas.

radiators are still best to go and face the wind, given that I already have cowling openings ....

I agree  - just like you I have been presented with an existing layout that I would like to try befor making any significant changes.

If mine works GREAT!

If not will be rejigging the whole shebang (probably radiator at front of cowl)

11 minutes ago, onetrack said:

----------------------------------------------------------------

I think Skippys on the right track, a standard petrol engine, electric fuel pump with a simple pump wiring arrangement (that has to be explosion-proof, of course) is a better way to go. 

Always a concern.

I hope that the pump/motor unit itself is reasonably "explosion"/ignition proof, in that it is a sealed and specified for petrol transfer.

I have added  an  on/off switch (sealed using self annealing tape)on a long lead, so I can hold deliver nozzle one hand switch in other & monitor fill level.

I also added a separate earth lead, with clip, to aircraft system.

The system is connected to an Anderson plug under my instrument panel - always connect up befor opening fuel drums & only disconnect after replacing fuel tank/drum lids

I fuel with hanger door open,for good ventilation and try to reduce chance of spark at delivery point by having nozzle well into filter funnel.

At the end of the day this is an experimental system, that may have an elevated chance of  petrol fume ignition.