skippydiesel

In checking some oil cooler parts, I discovered that my oil cooler is the largest, of 3, that Rotax supply - hope this results in great cooling characteristics (always subject to air flow)

On 25/01/2022 at 12:14 PM, skippydiesel said:

My Findings;

 

Oil Hose for Rotax.docx 17.84 kB · 10 downloads

 

All the hose specifications listed equal or exceed the Conti-M4M -2, except for bend radius

 

The Eaton Aeroquip from Berendsen, will not be available until "mid April"

 

There was some ambiguity in the Gates 27066 specifications

 

For my money the Gates 8G3H -8  from Hydraulink is the best of the available offerings. Why;

 

• Its availability now in Australia
• Reputable manufacturer/supplier (I have used Gates fuel & coolant hoses for over 20 years)
• Meets/exceeds Rotax/Continentals specification's in all but bend radius 
• Fair price (see post below)

Up  date - I have purchased  Gates  GTH - 8 hose from Hydraulink. My intention was to purchase the Gates G3H-8 hose, however on rereading the specifications, I realised the GTH-8 meets all the Rotax specifications, is lighter, has a slightly better bend radius and smaller OD than than G3H-8.

IF I get good coolant cooling, the current design/location of the traditor lends itself to an internal cowl flap/shutter

5 hours ago, RFguy said:

Skip, just remember, pressurizing the whole cowling will reduce the ability of the oil cooler to work effectively because of the low pressure difference.  I'll be ducting the air from the inlets  to my radiators (as not to pressurize the whole cowling) , and a slight inlet volume for around engine ancillaries cooling.  If you want to minimise frontal area / drag , you have to make the most of any radiator area you  have , which will mean ensuring you get high pressure differentials...

 

Hmmmm!

The sealing of the cowling will inevitably result is a pressure rise - how much and what practical effect this may have on cooling, remains to be seen . I do not agree that pressure in itself, is a barrier to good cooling performance, within the cowling, as long as each system has sufficient cool (relative)  air movement/flow from one side to the other (pressure gradient), 

Sealing (as much as poss) of the cowling is a requirement of my coolant cooling system, ie unavoidable.

I agree there must be an air flow from one side of the oil cooler to the other and this will require an air pressure gradient/difference - how much? Further automotive transmission oil coolers have been shown to be effective, even when not mounted in the front of the engine bay, in much slower moving, often pre heated air - I take some hope from this land based example. I do not , in the Mark I version, of my cowling intend to have a dedicated air supply to the oil cooler. I do think it highly likely that such a supply may be required, (provision for this is part of the plans) resulting in the Mark II variant.

I expect the coolant radiator to have a significant pressure variation, from inside cowling to outside air (much depends on the quality/effectiveness of the aforementioned sealing.

It should always be remember that Rotax engine cooling is a combination of oil, coolant and fin surface area. Certainly one (likely a liquid) can have a disproportionate temperature load/rise due to poor cooling performance of its dedicated heat transfer system and this must be guarded against.

1 hour ago, tillmanr said:

There are two levels of control that apply to RAA certificated flyers compared to GA pilots. The access to many airports, the number of passengers, overflying towns, aerobatics, IFR, night VFR. 
This is not a level landing area so the powers to be can have different levels of medical accreditation.

 I support the notion of drivers medical for all private flying but I am not holding my breath.

I stand to be corrected  - my interpretation on the RAA rules;

Access is probable to most secondary airports but may be restricted to certain times eg hrs(?) befor after the twice weekly RPT, befor/ after tower open  hours 

Here was me thinking you could have as many passengers as you can fit in a 2 seat aircraft - the restriction is on the number of seats not passengers 😊

You can overfly a town , as long as you stay above 1000 ft (AGL) and (subjectively) claim it not to be a built up area ie what constitutes a built up area -  2 houses with a town name or 200,000 houses - your guess (lane of entries???.)

Aerobatic limits, Day (as apposed to night)  VFR,  are actually well defined and are not available to RAA Cert holders

On 24/01/2022 at 9:15 PM, Lucky01 said:

Sexy Faeta in YGDH.  We enjoyed the cool air at 5500 ft today 😉

Nice aircraft (if a slightly spotty history).

Where are the main wheel spats? - your loosing a few knots there.

Same story with the" tractor" prop, optimised for glider tug. Two blade ground adjust, will optimise your performance.

You should have  an easy 120 knot cruise at, about 16l/h @ 5200 rpm

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

Skip,

1) the Xponder antenna and the VHF can be next to each other... but  try and keep them at least 2 x  transponder antenna lengths apart to reduce the potential for unwanted  directivity  of your transponder due to the proximity of the VHF .

2) the Xponder ant wont bother the VHF.

3) For 2 x VHF, I'd recommend min of 2.5 meters  and as far apart as practical.

 

SKip , how can your "limited understanding"  " strongly influence "?? surely a limited understanding should weakly influence your thinking? 

Limited experience (virtually no understanding) - I installed both transponder & transceiver (VHF) on my Zephyr. Followed suppliers instructions (strong influence) to the letter (including minimum distance 1 m). To my absolute delight/surprise both systems worked perfectly.

Sonex came with antenna location decisions already implemented - hence concern.

Transponder antenna length - its a "blade" type. I assume hight of blade also hight of antenna, so well in excess of your X2 recommendation.

25 minutes ago, RFguy said:

well, I think in Skippys case, the sealing around his radiator will be the difficult thing, the leaks will really hurt,  but the leaks HAVE to be sealed because the air will just go around the radiator if it can . go as large radiator as possible to reduce velocity through the radiator, which will reduce pressure drop, and then there wont be such a huge difference between the radiator path and a leak path(s)

.... and with no leaks, the cowling will be pressurized and will reduce the performance of the oil cooler radiator hung under the prop.

the hot air in the engine bay will preheat the air hitting the radiator reducing its performance, also unwanted. SKip  I'd be ducting the air from the inlets to that radiator.

I dont actually se the sealing around firewall to be a problem.

Exhaust exit another story. I have some high temp material that , with care, can be placed/configured to minimise (best I can do) air loss in this area.

My oil cooler will be moved, from directly behind a cowling "nostril" , to below engine, between exhaust pipes. This location will allow for smaller frontal area of cowling and the potential for an additional air inlet direct to oil cooler. I hope the combinator will not a only improve aerodynamics but also facilitate optimum cooling.

As for ducting - not in the Mark1 set up but always a possibility down the test track. 

My new Sonex comes with the antenna (transponder & transceiver) locations already drilled.

I have no concerns over the transceiver location, however the transponder has been  located just 500mm away.

My very limited understanding/experience strongly suggests that the two antenna should be no less than 1m apart.

My questions are;

• What is the recommend minimum distance between antenna (particularly transponder/transceiver) ?
• What effect/impact (if any) might I expect from such close location ?

What about that foil concertina ducting for kitchens etc - must have a fire rating or at least a high temp resistance.

I suppose you could just splurge & get regular aircraft SCAT, bit of a let down though 😊

RFguy - FYI Bunnings Aerospace have a nice line of lightweights, large bore, corrugated hose with a selection of plastic fittings. Vinidex Drain Coil  - 50mm, 65mm, 100mm. The hose itself comes in a non slotted variant. I used  50mm for my two NACA ducts fresh air to panel mounted Mercedes eyeball vents. Worked very well. 

You may have to test for suitability in higher temps of cowling.

F

On 26/01/2022 at 3:18 PM, Marty_d said:

FYI The definition of a

 

WHEEL - RIM + TYRE

RIM       - RIM - TYRE

TYRE    - TYRE - RIM

Pedantic ? Yes Far to many people (including in the trade) mix these terms up, causing unnecessary confusion.

The words come from the time of wooden wheels with steel tyres.

Came across this  EAA Homebuilder Week Sonex video - the relevant (to this  conversation) section commences at about  57 min 10 sec mark

https://players.brightcove.net/627008079/7MKHE9SrL_default/index.html?videoId=6293553347001

Having two radiators is not new, however the location, well back in the cowling,  is new to me,as is the side air exits.

Note;  the speakers comments on front mounted radiators 

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

 

SKippy, have you had time to make any progress ?

 

 

 

 

 

Some progress.

Son is working, intermittently, on CAD - Hope to have a promising design by end of coming week. Then the whole shebang will be "sectioned" , printed out & assembled as a skeletal female mold. Mold will require a time consuming amount of hand finishing . Probably a month or more befor a cowling can be produced & fitted.

50 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

I have the Dynon D2 forerunner to the D3 and it does everything i need.

Have no need for AofA indicator.

Much cheaper option than built in display and ideal for vfr ops.

What additional features do you need or want?

Your helpful point???

True its only been a day or so and I am overwhelmed by the rush (not) of Rotax 9 owners wanting to purchase,good quality, complaint, oil hose at a great price/m. So much so that I think it might just be best if I odder the few metres I want for myself and give up on trying to help my fellow aviators. Such is life!

Yes it does AoA however you will need the Dynon Pitot/AoA probe & mast to connect up to module.

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

Skippy with all due respects you are prepared to cut , package and delivery to post 23 packages to save $26-???   Poor efficiency to me, I'd be looking at washing the neighbours ute or tractor for that amount and then have enough to pay the $33.74/m.  Just the way I live on the planet.  Cheers.

I am happy to provide a service to any Forum members. From my perspective, sharing knowledge/experience/opinion/good luck is what the Forum should be about  Despite my interest in getting the best deal, I am not all about money/profit.

FYI the saving is  more like $86/m, on the Flood price (acceptable result?)

!T the meter rate is $33.74 - quite acceptably to me.

If the deal, below, falls through, I will just get 4 m (2 for now 2 for next hose change).

The $$26/m is for 48.5m

Hydraulink have offered me a deal on 48. 5 m of Gates 8G3H - the price would come down to about $26/m  (without delivery). It would be a big outlay for me on my own but if there are Forum members, who would like to participate/benefit in a group purchase please PM me ASAP. 

I think minimum purchase would have to be 2m (increments of 2m) -  I will need about 23 buyers (or less if you get 4m or more).

Let me know ASAP

My Findings;

Oil Hose for Rotax.docx

All the hose specifications listed equal or exceed the Conti-M4M -2, except for bend radius

The Eaton Aeroquip from Berendsen, will not be available until "mid April"

There was some ambiguity in the Gates 27066 specifications

For my money the Gates 8G3H from Hydraulink is the best of the available offerings. Why;

• Its availability now in Australia
• Reputable manufacturer/supplier (I have used Gates fuel & coolant hoses for over 20 years)
• Meets/exceeds Rotax/Continentals specification's in all but bend radius 
• Fair price (see post below)

Ninja to Pipistrel SW - big jump up!

The Virus outperforms the Ninja at both ends of the flight spectrum - I only know of one other factory aircraft with similar capability, the ATEC Faeta

GA or RAA registered?? 

3 hours ago, aro said:

The problem with the oil hoses is that they attach to parts that are not necessarily Rotax provided e.g. the oil cooler. Are the Rotax hoses compatible with all oil cooler fittings?

Thankfully all my fittings measure 12.?mm so the old 0.5' will fit, as will 12 mmm - I doubt 13 mm.

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

I use the oil hose from floods are what ever the price is at the time.  I know it will at least do the job.  Also I believe it is good to support the company so they remain in business; plus any time I have a tech question or seek advice they know me as a regular customer and have always been helpful to me.  Just my way of living. Cheers.

 

Again a very fair comment - Where the part is a Rotax part OR specifications are not available, I agree completely HOWEVER where B Flood is only supplying something (in this case oil hose) that can just as easily be sourced from many other suppliers, they should be a tad more competitive than + 500%

2 hours ago, RFguy said:

Ken, I operate my Jab at 6 to 7 minutes at WOT for roll and climb. but never WOT > 3000 RPM.

if the RPM comes up during the climb (speed increasing) , I'll climb a bit steeper and slow it down back to 2800-2900.. 

Basic airmanship