RFguy

Nev - is it that twins in general can't maintain altitude with flaps out and gear down on single engine ?

Just a side interesting point - I read in the POH, burn inboard tanks first because of wing loading limits.

it would need alot of jerry cans. according to a 1968 PA32-260 POH I have :, and assuming it is a CS prop , at 3400 gross, it needs 1240' over 50' at 2900 gross it needs 1020' over 50' remove the seats and it is 1661 lbs empty. add 2 hours of fuel , and a pilot its likely to be 1950 lbs extrapolating the above, it might get off in 750' to 50 ' ? but that's on bitumen . not grass ! Wow it must have some super performance with 260 hp and 1661 empty .

I would be sueing the media for deformation if they broadcast that I had run out of fuel when I had not.

I dont buy it . Pilot of a substantial airplane isnt going to do an orbit low on fuel. As for media reports " It was reported that when it left YBDG it was low on fuel." . what half tanks ?. sure lower than full. Let's wait to find out.

take a news report with a grain of salt. I reckon

that's right ! but planes are usually well sorted...... even if one bolt breaks somewhere on some aircraft in the world, it gets thoroughly checked out. The AD system works. It's not that I dont like the vendor, the engines are OK --- it's just the rules I have to work under with a 24- plane mean I have to accept a vendor's decisions and judgement and in this case this is wanting WRT engines in my opinion. In this case, the LSA rules prevent me taking the situation into my own hands. There is an option which is E24- Experimental 24- but E24 is NOT carte-blanch like 19- (although still must of course be within acceptable engineering standards for 19- ) ... E24 is very specific on the change. the E bit is for a specific change- IE say- ROTAX conversion. ... For selling- I am in two minds whether continue refurbing the 3300 engine with original heads+pistons etc and sell that way , or (complete the ) rotax conversion it and go E24.. Filling it with Mahle pistons (there is a good track record people using those) and LCH (fixed the evils of recession, MOGAS detonation , valve swallowing in one go) is certainly a sure way to get reliability but you cant get it signed off easily. Then you have an insurance issue. Certainly domain of the 19- which is a bit of wild west. I really want a 19- J230.

there are quite a few ADs on various corrosion events for PA28s. But inspecting is not a big deal. 'worst case' is that a couple of (flush) inspection ports get installed under the wing near the root. there are others that can be accessed through floor panels etc. there are corrosion ADs all over the place as you migth expect from a 50 yo aircraft. On every aircraft I have looked at (the books), ADs are all up to date. That's what they are of course, ADs.... The AD system can be a right pain in the arse, but it is also there to save your arse. It's why I am getting out of 24-...... A manufacturer knowlingly aware of faults, or contesting their existance , or in denial etc, and doing nothing about it. So many items should have been ADs for one vendor in particular. It's not that I dont like LSA, or I am a GA stob, it is that with 24-, you cant touch it- you are not allowed to.....even if it is deadly. That is a flaw IMO with the current setup. With 19- owner builder, you can do something about it and dont have to go for the ride with the vendor's opinion.

Pilots should get an OAM when they manage this in the suburbs.

it's a tough problem. . I cant imagine that heated up fuel lines on the surface would stay warm for long with 15deg C fuel flowing , though. so we should buy fuel on weight ? that's problematic also ! We need real time analysers in our cars so we can pay based on octane and energy density ,.... ONETRACK- I read the limit is 0.3%..... I would like to have seen a histogram of the problem. (IE std dev, outliers etc) Most Piper ADs are well sorted, there are the continuing ones of course. No more 24- LSAs for me.... 19- and VH & VH-exp.

Hi Nev. Decathlon no. But now I've read about 150 pages all up of Piper maintenance logs from from a dozen airplanes the past month, now taking a closer eye. I am getting so know what goes on. There are planes that are 'let go' then need ALOT of work in bursts , there are planes that continuously get fixed up as they need , and there are planes that just seem to be unlucky. Most of these 50 yo airplanes have lived in various places by now, both inland and by the sea. Theer was an AD a few years ago which required an inspection cover be put in to get a good look at the wing spar etc. Leaking baggage doors seems to be common (on those with the baggage door) . and I now understand all the different models..... The newer instrument panel layout came in in 1969, for example.

OK, so HDPE has an expansion coefficient of around 12 ppm/K. varies a bit depending on constitution. volume change will be the cube of that 1728ppm/K...... (IE about 1.7% per 10 deg C) ..... gasoline volume about 950 ppm/K. if the gasoline is experiencing vaporization at elevated temps, I guess there will be additional gas pressure Glass temperatute is around 75 deg C.

expansion when sealed could permanently add quite a few cubic centimeters to the volume. I wonder what type of plastic is used. I would expect all servo meters to be within 2%, surely ???!!

I'll be tripping over my beard by the time we get unleaded AVGAS...... I'll finished refurbing this late Gen3 engine (300 hours) . clean & dye pen check the pistons, new rings, hone bores, clean/shim heads from recession, clean out the valve guides. done. unless someone wants the rotax conversion or the LCH. plane is probably worth most in 24- condition but getting best prrice is not really an objective.

depends how many you have in it. I'm looking at ARcher1 / challenger, but also 140s which are fine for two place airplanes.. not looking for a short field plane... I'll get a savannah / Cygnet / for that. A 19- build anyway....

agreed. I am going to buy a Piper, selling the Jab. many reasons . Piper sucks fuel of course . I was reading up on the Piper MOGAS STC. which seems good for the 7:1 compression engines.

https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ct86-21.pdf takeaways if you dont get time to read the 59 pages comparing central US winter PULP and AVGAS 100LL, and then spend time examining Australian fuel data sheets --- My takeaway- use AVGAS 100LL in summer over PULP if tank temps are over 30 deg C and below 45C. add some Decalin Runup additive if you dont want lead buildup in low temperature (Jabiru, Rotax) engines. 0) Vapour lock and detonation was not detected using AVGAS 100LL. 0b) Winter PULP with higher vapour pressure is a significant issue for vapour lock, especially if it is purchased in winter and used in summer..... and due to altitude effects, may be problematic without fuel lines under pressure. 1) vapour lock in the fuel lines generally shows up as cyclic fuel pressure indication over the course of 20 sec to 120 secs as fuel percolates in the lines and is removed. 2) vapour lock is most likely just below and at the minimum boiling point of the fuel. High fuel tank temperatures 10deg C above the boiling point are less trouble that just below because the volatile compunds have been evaporated off and the vapour pressure drops (desirable) . 3) operation of fuels around their boiling point is unwanted. Airplane with PULP sitting out in the hot sun all day = bad. Probably worst case scenario fpr PULP since high Australian ambient temps are similar to the boiling point. 4) vented storage 'stale' PULP reduced tendency to vapour lock, even though the RVP wasnt substantially affected. Octane increased slightly with vented / stale PULP. 5) changing throttle settings when vapour lock is encountered doesnt help much- the problem is a fuel delivery issue. 6) For PULP, Detonation is more severe with low humidity and high engine temps. FYI - recommended max RVP for aircraft (source : aircraft mfr : 49 kPa) AVGAS 100LL : (Australia) RVP 45kPa (39-49 max range) , 10% distilled at 75 deg C, IBP(initial boiling point) : >42C. PULP98 : large range RVP 45 -100 kPa (typical : 60-80 depends summer/winter) , Typical Australian fuel : 10 % distilled at 49 deg C. IBP ~ 32 deg C

Jack, I disgree. IMO Jabiru bottom ends 'never' (IE rarely) need work- only for prop strike ..... Barrels and heads always come off....with ring replacement pretty much mandatory (IE it will need to be done) . heads needs to be cleaned up, guides and valves inspected and cleaned, recession assessed, hone and back on they go.

Section 2.7, 2.8 and 2.9 and Section 3.3 IMPLY that the engine whatever the situation, will be stripped down and clearances and tolerances measured. That's what Jabiru do if you send it to them . They will split the case and measure everything. Now, if the pistons etc are off, and it is found that there is no undue play, friction etc and no serious metal in the filter, then it's likely to be not required to split the case- but Jabiru would.

Jabiru are not upgrading/refurbing Gen1 engines- they are doing Gen2, Gen3 ( A Gen2 is not a long way from the Gen 3). (when I asked 3 months ago) . Gen4 production rate should be improved by mid year. Jabiru top end should go 1000 hours IMO on ULP fuel only, if head recession doesnt get you causing valves to not fully close. Nev you are right- case split is NOT mandated, but parts like replacement like valves at 1k hours must Jetboy. true. bit of interpretation of the manuals. Jabiru talk of engine cycles- 1000hours each cycle, max of two cycles if it is a 24- HAVING SAID ALL THAT- with pistons off and crank and cam feeling good and no unexpected metal in the filter - In My opinion,. it is likely unnecessary to split the case from my POV and the way I interpret the manual. ----- Engines sent to Jabiru - Jabiru though would likely split the case at 1k hours. Section 2.7, 2.8 particularly : "The intention is that an engine will initially be stripped and the mandatory replacement parts will be discarded" Interpret this how you will...

Thruster is right about the mandatory updates applied when Jabiru do an overhaul. (which is good) - In this Gen3 engine I recently bought, it was overhauled in 2015 by Jabiru and they upgraded the engine to the very latest feature and SB spec. - solid lifters to Hydraulic rollers, new camshaft, new pushrod manifolds, internal pushrod oiling, full flywheel attachment kit, dowels in the crankcase >> prop flange interface... new oil pump rotor, double valve springs, etc etc All that would have been in the end , quite a bit of coin --- IE the basic overhaul of pistons, valves, gaskets, rings, rockerbushes would have been peanuts. .... Hence maybe wait until a Gen4 engine is available (get in the queue) and run 'on condition' (which you are not permitted to do ) if leakdowns are good (>65 to 70) . I would think at 960 hours it would be tired. But the bottom end as nev says is likely fine. they rarely (I dont know of any) that give problems ever.

I would add my 2c in that the 1000 hour is a crankcase split is alot more involved that just pulling the heads off and cleaning up heads, guides, pistons which 'any mug can do '. IMO the level of experience and competence is an order of magnitude for a full overhaul compared to the top end overhaul or refresh. Saying all that, people dont seem to report too much difficulty with reassembling the crankcase and not having a crankshaft and camshaft (which runs in the aluminium casing ) bind. Jabiru's price for doing a overhaul I think is reasonable. Parts are not priced like Rotax- Rotax wants you to buy a new engine and that's why a ring set is $270 for a single piston for a rotax and $35 for a jabiru. Although rotax will go reliably 2000 hours without blinking ..but then u have to chuck it out. So- you might consider taking it to your favourite mechanic, removing the engine and sending to Jabiru. Or flying it to Bundaberg is I think much easier unless you are in WA.... -glen

Keith, just a comment clarification - did you say Jabiru are not overhauling < Gen4 ? (IE 1,2 or 3) ?

just a point of order here you must price in the ladder to be apples for apples How do the fill -underside setups work for a 737 ?

and spiral pin retainers...