RA-AUS renewal now with lots of Membership Terms and Conditions

[turboplanner]

10 hours ago, facthunter said:

We really have Lost it from where we once were.   Shame.  Nev

Well I can remember being crapped on with statements like "No point in having a dog and barking yourself" and "We've outgrown the Cricket Club Incorporation and should be treating RA as a business" They worked on the lazies and here we are.

[turboplanner]

On 09/04/2026 at 10:49 AM, facthunter said:

Hasn't covered the Liability they are exposed to. Put yourself in THEIR shoes. It's an untenable Position. Nev

RAA walked away from that cover, and the ability to call meetings which these days could be zoom meetings, survey the members on something which was an issue etc.  The position switched to hoping the company was keeping up.

[turboplanner]

12 hours ago, clouddancer said:

That is sadly well outdated, being pre Part 149, Part 103, pre-lots of good old days things. 

RAA (Inc) signed an annual update which incorporated changes; we used to get one of these books, each year, that was the 2010 edition. I would assume that RAA Ltd gets these books and signs each year, and if so  would be working to the 2025 or 2026 Edition which would incorporate andy changes like you mentioned.

 

One of the sure signs of Self Administration is reference to Australian Standards, in this case AS3806. - 2006, and International Standards - ISO 23100 (International Standard 23100 covering Risk Management, and the Organisation's SMS (Safety Management Standard).                                                         

 

These were never mandatory and we never took much notice of them, but they are industry benchnarks and compliance with an industry benchmark is good to have in a case where someone is making a claim against you, so Australian Standards have become elevated in daily use. Same with ISO. We put them in our Operating Manuals. 

 

Where they become vital is for RA operations, specifically "Ultralight Exceptions" to the CASA Regulations.        

[clouddancer]

I think these lawyerly terms and conditions are actually RAAus catching up to what the Australian Parachute Federation, the Sport Aviation Federation of Australia and Gliding Australia have been requiring of members for years. 
Flying is dangerous, leaping out of aircraft is dangerous, sign here please.

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

RAA (Inc) signed an annual update which incorporated changes; we used to get one of these books, each year, that was the 2010 edition. I would assume that RAA Ltd gets these books and signs each year, and if so  would be working to the 2025 or 2026 Edition which would incorporate andy changes like you mentioned.

 

One of the sure signs of Self Administration is reference to Australian Standards, in this case AS3806. - 2006, and International Standards - ISO 23100 (International Standard 23100 covering Risk Management, and the Organisation's SMS (Safety Management Standard).                                                         

 

These were never mandatory and we never took much notice of them, but they are industry benchnarks and compliance with an industry benchmark is good to have in a case where someone is making a claim against you, so Australian Standards have become elevated in daily use. Same with ISO. We put them in our Operating Manuals. 

 

Where they become vital is for RA operations, specifically "Ultralight Exceptions" to the CASA Regulations.        

Are you or have you ever been a member of raaus

[BurnieM]

While we have other b/s with CASA, what we do not have is > $300 a year fees and an annual 'screw you' renewal form.

Certainly CASA cover themselves without this.

 

RPL with class 5 and VH registered LSA are very close to RAAus.

Has anybody done the numbers for costs over say a 10 year timespan.

 

You wonder whether the RAAus agenda is actually to shutdown RAAus ?

 

Edited Sunday at 09:43 PM by BurnieM

[Thruster88]

11 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

While we have other b/s with CASA, what we do not have is > $300 a year fees and an annual 'screw you' renewal form.

Certainly CASA cover themselves without this.

 

RPL with class 5 and VH registered LSA are very close to RAAus.

Has anybody done the numbers for costs over say a 10 year timespan.

 

You wonder whether RAAus agenda is actually to shutdown RAAus ?

 

The playing field between VH and RAAus aircraft is narrowing bit by bit. The  difference now is all VH aircraft except experimentals THE OWNER BUILT require LAME maintenance. 

 

The ease of getting an L1 endorsement, one multiple choice exam, compared to the days long training with the new not yet available SAAA maintenance course that will enable non builder owners of VH experimental to maintain their aircraft is an interesting one.

 

 

[turboplanner]

21 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Are you or have you ever been a member of raaus

Yes, why the question?

Why don't you  follow up on the problem?

 

[BurnieM]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

The ease of getting an L1 endorsement, one multiple choice exam, compared to the days long training with the new not yet available SAAA maintenance course that will enable non builder owners of VH experimental to maintain their aircraft is an interesting one.

The line maintenance tasks you can perform with an L1 are pretty much the same as a RPL/PPL can perform on their own plane.

 

There may or may not be a number of maintenance/modification tasks performed on RAAus aircraft that generally people would not try on VH registered aircraft. I make no comment on whether this is legal or not.

 

[jackc]

4 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

The playing field between VH and RAAus aircraft is narrowing bit by bit. The  difference now is all VH aircraft except experimentals THE OWNER BUILT require LAME maintenance. 

 

The ease of getting an L1 endorsement, one multiple choice exam, compared to the days long training with the new not yet available SAAA maintenance course that will enable non builder owners of VH experimental to maintain their aircraft is an interesting one.

 

 

CASA will have the Legislative Instrument relating to the SAAA Maintenance Course, ready. 
Completion this month.  The Course Syllabus has been completed AND approved by CASA,  already done. 

[jackc]

5 hours ago, BurnieM said:

While we have other b/s with CASA, what we do not have is > $300 a year fees and an annual 'screw you' renewal form.

Certainly CASA cover themselves without this.

 

RPL with class 5 and VH registered LSA are very close to RAAus.

Has anybody done the numbers for costs over say a 10 year timespan.

 

You wonder whether the RAAus agenda is actually to shutdown RAAus ?

 

I watched this video this morning, the demise of an Aviation Sector I remember so well.

i immediately thought of RAAus following the same path?

 

 

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, BurnieM said:

While we have other b/s with CASA, what we do not have is > $300 a year fees and an annual 'screw you' renewal form.

Certainly CASA cover themselves without this.

 

RPL with class 5 and VH registered LSA are very close to RAAus.

Has anybody done the numbers for costs over say a 10 year timespan.

 

You wonder whether the RAAus agenda is actually to shutdown RAAus ?

 

I don't believe it is; you'll notice the other Self Administrative bodies have already taken similar actions.

 

[facthunter]

Some questionable claims made there. 2 Millionths of an inch tolerance and GAPPING a GLOW Plug???  No sign of any Machinery capable of the accuracy  Claims Made either. Grinding and Lapping get those Fits. Cox's small engine sizes might have also Played a Part in Loss of Market. They weren't especially High Quality either.. The crankcases were Made from an extruded   aluminium section, Not a casting. All designed for Mass Production and Low cost.   Nev

[facthunter]

On the thread topic, the demise of the RAAus  has been a long process and It's problems were evident from the early days and what the current situation is/ was Highly predictable. It was to great extent set up to Fail. It's all about Liability. Nev

[BrendAn]

10 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Yes, why the question?

Why don't you  follow up on the problem?

 

Just wondered because you only talk about flying ga aircraft.

What is the problem exactly.

I only asked why some people had to sign the new terms and not others. But I found out today the people that paid membership without the seven page Form are getting them mailed to them to sign now.  And the raaus rep said the seven signatures absolve raaus of all responsibility. I can live with that.

It's how it's always been , just a bit more formalised.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

On the thread topic, the demise of the RAAus  has been a long process and It's problems were evident from the early days and what the current situation is/ was Highly predictable. It was to great extent set up to Fail. It's all about Liability. Nev

Meanwhile the Incorporated Associations have gone from strength to strength.

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Just wondered because you only talk about flying ga aircraft.

What is the problem exactly.

I only asked why some people had to sign the new terms and not others. But I found out today the people that paid membership without the seven page Form are getting them mailed to them to sign now.  And the raaus rep said the seven signatures absolve raaus of all responsibility. I can live with that.

It's how it's always been , just a bit more formalised.

I don't want to get into the process yet again because I've explained it over and over, and nothing has changed to the legal policies that I've seen, and it would be all over the newspapers if it had.

 

I wouldn't agree with the absolving of all responsibility, because everyone has a duty of care. However if you have acknowledged that you have been made aware of the risks then the party who had the duty of care can at claim that you were aware of x.  

 

 

[jackc]

5 hours ago, facthunter said:

Some questionable claims made there. 2 Millionths of an inch tolerance and GAPPING a GLOW Plug???  No sign of any Machinery capable of the accuracy  Claims Made either. Grinding and Lapping get those Fits. Cox's small engine sizes might have also Played a Part in Loss of Market. They weren't especially High Quality either.. The crankcases were Made from an extruded   aluminium section, Not a casting. All designed for Mass Production and Low cost.   Nev

Whilst I never had one blow up, they wear out to a point they just won’t run.

Every product video has a certain degree of hype and even some straight out lies.

but in this case the general history is portrayed, as far as i know.

Again,  those early days were lots of fun 🤩 

[facthunter]

They lose the Impact when most of it is Made up. Hand made stuff is Too expensive. Aeromodelling wasn't a cheap exercise once larger Motors became the norm for Control line and Balsa  become the Main Material used. The usual CL motor became 5 cc+. Nev

[facthunter]

Knocking out tiny Motors in Large Numbers is Materials Plus Bu@@er all ,  Like anything else. You can engineer out Human error or the Monday Motor. Robots don't get tired or have to go to the Loo. It's easy to go all Nostalgic but then Only the rich can afford the article. My first Model Motor A FROG 150 cost 4 pound ten. Half a weeks wages at the time. I saved for Ages to get it.. Nev

[facthunter]

Ther's a few here who for personal reasons would welcome the demise of RAAus. I am NOT one of them as I Believe it is still needed by a lot of People who want to fly cheaply. Have they done a Good job NO.  but with a lot of People involved  "Friends"? They sure don't need enemies. This ROT has been over Many Years of Failure and there's plenty of Blame to go around.  It  was the CASA that originally Proposed it so MUST share some responsibility whether they Like it or Not. Perhaps they don't like the Idea anymore. IF that IS the case we SHOULD ALSO KNOW. . It's crunch TIME. Right Now.   Nev

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Ther's a few here who for personal reasons would welcome the demise of RAAus. I am NOT one of them as I Believe it is still needed by a lot of People who want to fly cheaply. Have they done a Good job NO.  but with a lot of People involved  "Friends"? They sure don't need enemies. This ROT has been over Many Years of Failure and there's plenty of Blame to go around.  It  was the CASA that originally Proposed it so MUST share some responsibility whether they Like it or Not. Perhaps they don't like the Idea anymore. IF that IS the case we SHOULD ALSO KNOW. . It's crunch TIME. Right Now.   Nev

It's not crunch time at all, just needs a few progressive people to get it on track.

[jackc]

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

Ther's a few here who for personal reasons would welcome the demise of RAAus. I am NOT one of them as I Believe it is still needed by a lot of People who want to fly cheaply. Have they done a Good job NO.  but with a lot of People involved  "Friends"? They sure don't need enemies. This ROT has been over Many Years of Failure and there's plenty of Blame to go around.  It  was the CASA that originally Proposed it so MUST share some responsibility whether they Like it or Not. Perhaps they don't like the Idea anymore. IF that IS the case we SHOULD ALSO KNOW. . It's crunch TIME. Right Now.   Nev

Fly cheaply? That ship sailed long ago?  Because hourly training costs for Aircraft and Instructor are generally in excess of $300 per hour.

Reason? Flying Schools want to use expensive aircraft with glass cockpits etc. 

An older Foxbat with 6 pack instrumentation won’t cut it anymore? 
Besides RAAus want to be the new GA, an oft used statement?  They have forgotten WHERE they came from? 

[skippydiesel]

8 minutes ago, jackc said:

 

Reason? Flying Schools want to use expensive aircraft with glass cockpits etc. 

An older Foxbat with 6 pack instrumentation won’t cut it anymore? 
 

Thats strange - my local RAA flying school/club has 3 Foxbat's - all with conventional (analogue) instruments. They seem to have an unending stream of students.😈

Edited 12 hours ago by skippydiesel

[BurnieM]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Thats strange - my local RAA flying school/club has 3 Foxbat's - all with conventional (analogue) instruments. They seem to have an unending stream of students.😈

I believe your local school is a flying club so probably a little cheaper.

Any idea what their hourly rate is ?

 

Edited 11 hours ago by BurnieM