Designated Remote Areas, Au

[T510]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

 

 

A woman who lived on a Station near Cameron's corner decided one hot day that she would take the children in to the store at Moomba Gas field for an ice cream one day. The trip was only 20 to 30 minutes so she didn't bother to take any water. On the way in the Land Rover broke down/got bogged on a sand hill.  The husband found the bodies later that day. I didn't check but I don't think that's a DRA. It just shows how little time things go bad in the outback if you're not covering the bases.

 

 

 

 

There is always one.

 

Don't let the truth get in the way of your stories, the real events where tragic but didn't quite play out the way you say

 

https://www.monumentaustralia.org/themes/people/tragedy/display/107161-peabody-corner

[BurnieM]

But not that different.

 

Does show how critical carrying water is in almost all parts of Australia when you are not close to a town/major road. Some water needs to always be in the plane.

 

 

[onetrack]

The important part of being stranded in a remote hot region is that you minimise exertion, and maximise the shade. Mrs Peabody did neither. There are substantial numbers of stories of tragedy in the Kalgoorlie Goldfields in the early Goldrush days (late 1800's onwards), where people went on trips on foot in 40°C heat with inadequate amounts of water, improper clothing and footwear and exerting themselves at a time of maximum heat during the day. And of course, leaving your aircraft or vehicle, is a guaranteed way of not ever being found. 

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

 

 

 

'There's always one' indeed, but your lurid anecdotes, alone, do not convincing arguments make; nor even seem to try.

 

BTW, for the price of renting $10,000 worth of HF gear, you could treat yourself to a new telephone. 

 

It's portable, provides SOS sat-comms from anywhere and will even run an EFB app to keep you in a safe place to start with.

 

 

 

 

You don't understand what I'm saying do you. It comes with the aircraft hire. If you have six people on board sharing costs the cost per Nm is less than the hire cost of a Cessna 172 and you can carry out the formal communications required with the Airservices process.

[Reynard]

Fair enough. Although I suspect it would be rare for posters on this forum to have 6 people in an aircraft.

 

A Starlink mini costs around $400 outright + a monthly plan for ~ $60 and may be another option.

[T510]

I have a Starlink Mini, yet to mount it in the plane though. I also use Starlink at home. 

 

"Telstra has a Starlink-powered, direct-to-cell satellite text messaging service in Australia that works with select Apple iPhone (13 or later) and Google Pixel (9 and 10 series) models. This "just-in-case" service requires users to be outdoors, on a Telstra Upfront plan, and on compatible devices, enabling messaging when outside normal coverage areas"

 

I have used this on my Pixel 10 and it works seamlessly, fortunately I haven't had to use it in an emergency situation yet

[BurnieM]

You need to think about both coverage and what would survive a crash.

Most mobile phones are likely to fail on both counts.

Starlink may help you avoid weather via internet updates to your EFB but would fail on survivability.

 

As well as your ELT/PLB a Garmin Inreach mini 2 may be useful.

Note the Inreach mini 2 requires a subscription.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by BurnieM

[BurnieM]

Just noticed my 2 litre milk container is HDPE#2 plastic. 

This may be a good cheap water storage container. 

Probably want to secure to stop leaks from bouncing around as the plastic is not the thickest.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by BurnieM

[onetrack]

Use a dedicated stainless steel or heavy polyurethane water container - a 2L milk bottle would have little survivability in a crash, and the lids are notorious for leaking and popping off in regular shopping use. Plus the material they're made from, will fracture just from buckling.

 

The ones in the link below are insulated, and you can even buy a handy neoprene cover for them, which also has a carry strap. They come in 2L and 3.8L sizes.

 

https://www.drifta.com.au/product/drifta-stockton-2l-stainless-steel-water-bottle/?attribute_pa_colour=black

 

Edited 20 hours ago by onetrack

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, Reynard said:

Fair enough. Although I suspect it would be rare for posters on this forum to have 6 people in an aircraft.

 

A Starlink mini costs around $400 outright + a monthly plan for ~ $60 and may be another option.

We usually talk about recreational flying, building your own aircraft and flying it local, the top end flying further and higher. I don't subject has come up in about 16 years.

 

Six place aircraft are up towards the top of GA in the Touring/Cross Country Category. A typical Melbourne flight would be Moorabbin, Port Augusta, Woomera, Coober Pedy, Uluru, Alice Springs, Katherine, Darwin, Karumbah, Whitsundays, Moorabbin.

[skippydiesel]

49 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

"Six place aircraft are up towards the top of GA in the Touring/Cross Country Category. A typical Melbourne flight would be Moorabbin, Port Augusta, Woomera, Coober Pedy, Uluru, Alice Springs, Katherine, Darwin, Karumbah, Whitsundays, Moorabbin."

Well I aspire to fly across the Nation, Sydney - Perth/return, at least once. Further afield if that test flight workes out. 

 

I got out of GA because I couldn't fill a four seater, let alone a 6.

 

All of your nominated airfields will be visited,  plus many others, with a flight plan of 15L/hr ULP @ 130 knots true.

😈

[Love to fly]

Avplan has a satellite map, and also terrain. 

 

We consider arrying a satellite device like a Zoleo when you are remote essential. It allows 2 way SMS and email communication. Also let's our designated contacts track us.  ADSB coverage is good, but not everywhere yet. 

 

Also, Moomba is definitely within a DRA. 

[Love to fly]

AvPlan with blue boundary for DRA

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Love to fly

[Reynard]

“We consider carrying a satellite device like a Zoleo when you are remote essential“.

 

Just as a straw poll, what do others use for maintaining contact with your ‘responsible person’ in remote areas, if you don’t lodge a flight notification with a SARtime ?

[Garfly]

6 hours ago, turboplanner said:

You don't understand what I'm saying do you. It comes with the aircraft hire. If you have six people on board sharing costs the cost per Nm is less than the hire cost of a Cessna 172 and you can carry out the formal communications required with the Airservices process.

Oh, I understood but I'd say the added detail is not much more persuasive.

But let it pass. It ain't important.

We're all in furious agreement that having enough water and the means to yell for help is a bloody good idea (like motherhood and apple meat pie).

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, Garfly said:

Oh, I understood but I'd say the added detail is not much more persuasive.

But let it pass. It ain't important.

We're all in furious agreement that having enough water and the means to yell for help is a bloody good idea (like motherhood and apple meat pie).

However the question was about a specific Airservices category Designated Remote Areas. Anyone from GA operating Cross CountryTouring can pull the details from NAIPS.

[Garfly]

21 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

However the question was about a specific Airservices category Designated Remote Areas. Anyone from GA operating Cross CountryTouring can pull the details from NAIPS.

Fair enough, but as Thruster posted above, MOS 26.64 seems to be the only 'regulation' that applies to us (and most would see it as just common sense).  That being said, with new tech 'remote' ain't what it used to be.  (Though flights can and do disappear).

 

Remote area survival equipment 
(MOS 26.64)
An aircraft that is flying over a remote area is 
required to carry appropriate survival equipment 
for sustaining life for the area that is being 
overflown.

[Moneybox]

On 26/2/2026 at 8:33 PM, BurnieM said:

As well as Ozrunways having this view I believe Avplan has something similar.

 

Garmin Pilot gives you a satellite photo similar to above but only around an airfield and you can scroll it around.

GP does not let you display this as your map layer with flightplan on top.

GP gives you Openstreetmaps as a map layer with detailed airfields, airspaces and topo shading (but not heights).

GP also gives you a Terrain height database. This is used for flight profiles and also to overlay on a map Red (within 500ft) and yellow (within 1000ft)

I generally plan on Openstreetmaps, check my profile for MSA and switch to VFR charts for flight.

 

What EFB do you have ?

 

I’ve got OzRunways premium subscription but I have a lot to learn. These last few days working through Stuart Maddigan’s chapter 10 has taught me a lot.

[Moneybox]

19 hours ago, turboplanner said:

As a personal rule, I would not fly an RA standard aircraft near or through a Designated Remote Area, because the engine failures are much more common, but the landings routine if you don't fly over the RA "Tiger Country".

 

I would not hire a basic GA aircraft such as a 172 or Cherokee 140 or Warrior through a DRA because, in the more unlikely event of an engine out, the radio equipment would usually not be good enough to get help.

 

A woman who lived on a Station near Cameron's corner decided one hot day that she would take the children in to the store at Moomba Gas field for an ice cream one day. The trip was only 20 to 30 minutes so she didn't bother to take any water. On the way in the Land Rover broke down/got bogged on a sand hill.  The husband found the bodies later that day. I didn't check but I don't think that's a DRA. It just shows how little time things go bad in the outback if you're not covering the bases.

 

I would hire an aircraft with the additional $10,000 or so worth of aviation standard HF radio. Which is probably why this has been the first DRA discussion I can ever remember.

 

DRAs are not just in the outback, but can be in our Alpine areas. You won't necessarily identify one just by looking at a normal terrain map.

 

 

I usually travel with Starlink Mini but I didn’t want to be concerned with battery drain so I packed a PLB. I have a hand held GPS with the waypoints inserted for each airstrip along the way. I don’t trust the iPad and phone. 

[Moneybox]

All the talk of telephones and satellite equipment, these all rely on battery power and most can’t handle heat. 
I’ve packed a PLB that has a 10 hour transmission life. Most potential rescues have been responded to within 2 hours. I could have packed the marine EPIRB but it’s bigger and heavier and I’m not planning to cross water on this trip. 

[Moneybox]

Skippy, I’ve just finished telling Mrs Moneybox that I need the 4 seater you talk about. We don’t get to go shopping very often so the list gets longer every day, I leave in the morning.

OzRunways says I can go all the way on my 65L tank but I’ve got an extra 30 that will go in halfway home. I’m yet to work out the Sportstar’s range.

[Moneybox]

Perhaps we just need to all have ADSB/Out?

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/inside-flightradar24/flightradar24-expands-global-coverage-with-aireon-space-based-ads-b-data/?utm_campaign=website&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid.com
 

Edited 4 hours ago by Moneybox

[BurnieM]

7 hours ago, Moneybox said:

All the talk of telephones and satellite equipment, these all rely on battery power and most can’t handle heat. 
I’ve packed a PLB that has a 10 hour transmission life. Most potential rescues have been responded to within 2 hours. I could have packed the marine EPIRB but it’s bigger and heavier and I’m not planning to cross water on this trip. 

PLBs are required to transmitt for 24 hours and GME PLBs have shelf battery life of 7 years.

EPIRBs (as well as floating) have a transmitt time of 48 hours.

 

While they would know where to recover your body from within 2 hours I would not rely on being picked up in less than 6 hours if you are close to a metro area.

 

[BurnieM]

7 hours ago, Moneybox said:

I usually travel with Starlink Mini but I didn’t want to be concerned with battery drain so I packed a PLB. I have a hand held GPS with the waypoints inserted for each airstrip along the way. I don’t trust the iPad and phone. 

Yeah, everything can fail.

 

I bought an iPad mini 6 256GB cellular when they were the latest. I think I paid $1200ish. Now replaced by the mini 7 (also called A17).

Garmin Pilot comes with 3 licenses so I decided to buy a backup.

Bought a iPad (standard) gen 9 64GB cellular. I bought this new for $650ish just after the gen 10 was released.

It is a little slower but the battery lasts longer.

 

I now believe you can run all of the Australian EFBs on 64GB or less so if this is your main use save your money.

 

If I was buying now I would buy a second hand iPad mini 6 64GB cellular from one of the resellers who offers a 3 month warranty.

 

[Love to fly]

7 hours ago, Moneybox said:

I usually travel with Starlink Mini but I didn’t want to be concerned with battery drain so I packed a PLB. I have a hand held GPS with the waypoints inserted for each airstrip along the way. I don’t trust the iPad and phone. 

Regardless of Starlink, isn't a PLB mandatory for cross country flights? 

Edited 1 hour ago by Love to fly