Wing Aviation Pty Ltd drones - coming soon to Melbourne

[T510]

You haven't hit a nerve, this is/was a thread about drones, I missed your thread drift in to general aerial ag work

16 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Right now & for the immediate future aerial drones do not yet have the capacity of full size aircraft, which have their place but are also limited (mainly cost), compared with ground based systems,  as I have described.

 

You are way behind the times with this comment

 

unmanned R22 Spray Helicopter

https://www.fairlifts.com/helicopters/introducing-the-r22-uv-uavos-advanced-unmanned-helicopter-for-precision-agriculture/

 

R550

https://rotor.ai/r550-sprayhawk

 

There are also a few unmanned spraying aircraft in the 600-1000kg mtow range available.

 

The only reason we are not seeing these unmanned aircraft in Australia at this stage is the current regulations

[T510]

17 hours ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

This is the problem, there are dozens of sites in China where you can via a drone that can carry 500 L payload. These things are huge. Imported into Australia as farm equipment and provided you don't run into anyone then you are good to go. You claim ignorance if anyone ever starts knocking at the door saying you are a farmer, not a pilot and I don't need any bloody license for my tractor so why would I need one for this !

The scary thing is the lack of quality in a lot of the generic Chinese brands. I have used DJI products and they tend to be a good thing, easy to operate and for the main part do what they say they will do reliably. XAG, are good but a couple of rungs below the DJI equivalent.

 

Some of the cheaper brands I have been contracted to assess are unreliable with poor build quality and confusing pilot interfaces. Probably their only saving grace is they tend to fail pretty quickly so they are no longer an aerial hazard.

[Student Pilot]

1 hour ago, T510 said:

You haven't hit a nerve, this is/was a thread about drones, I missed your thread drift in to general aerial ag work

You are way behind the times with this comment

 

unmanned R22 Spray Helicopter

https://www.fairlifts.com/helicopters/introducing-the-r22-uv-uavos-advanced-unmanned-helicopter-for-precision-agriculture/

 

R550

https://rotor.ai/r550-sprayhawk

 

There are also a few unmanned spraying aircraft in the 600-1000kg mtow range available.

 

The only reason we are not seeing these unmanned aircraft in Australia at this stage is the current regulations

A 3 hectare load? That's a lot of loads on a 1200 hectare block 😜

Yes the technology is possible to have a high capacity aircraft flying autonomously, even spray. In real life it's just not going to happen. There are so many variables to try and allow for that it's an immensely complex task.
Drones are pushed as an answer where any person can do these involved and complicated jobs.
The drone operator will have a wide chemical knowledge, calibration skills, expertise with working gps and programming, weather insight with regard to chemical application and associated drift problems. That's just scratching the surface, obviously an intimate understanding on computer programming and drone aerodynamics would be a pre requisite. How much an hour do you think such a person would be paid? $50? $100? What do you think an agricultural pilot is paid? 
The technology is here, there are capable machines available. The reality of drones replacing all flying industry tasks is a long way away.
Please post where broad acre spraying (commercially viable) is done by drones.

[facthunter]

The type of LIFT used by Drones is not very efficient either. Chemicals are restricted and you must have a current Chemical USERS Accreditation . Windy days would Preclude some applications. Spraying Mixed Chemicals where compatible saves doing it multiple times. The Lower the Level the Better the result generally and some sprays are better using a shrouded stronger application. Herbicides  and Pesticides are Bloody AWFUL things. The less of them used the Better for the World.  Traces of Glyphosate are in everything now and it's use is BANNED in Many Countries Nev

[BrendAn]

34 minutes ago, Student Pilot said:

A 3 hectare load? That's a lot of loads on a 1200 hectare block 😜

Yes the technology is possible to have a high capacity aircraft flying autonomously, even spray. In real life it's just not going to happen. There are so many variables to try and allow for that it's an immensely complex task.
Drones are pushed as an answer where any person can do these involved and complicated jobs.
The drone operator will have a wide chemical knowledge, calibration skills, expertise with working gps and programming, weather insight with regard to chemical application and associated drift problems. That's just scratching the surface, obviously an intimate understanding on computer programming and drone aerodynamics would be a pre requisite. How much an hour do you think such a person would be paid? $50? $100? What do you think an agricultural pilot is paid? 
The technology is here, there are capable machines available. The reality of drones replacing all flying industry tasks is a long way away.
Please post where broad acre spraying (commercially viable) is done by drones.

Actually if you do some searching you will find a company in the US that is broad acre spraying with drones. I think they have 3 working at a time. Nice setup on a custom built semi .

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, T510 said:

You haven't hit a nerve, this is/was a thread about drones, I missed your thread drift in to general aerial ag work

You are way behind the times with this comment

 

unmanned R22 Spray Helicopter

https://www.fairlifts.com/helicopters/introducing-the-r22-uv-uavos-advanced-unmanned-helicopter-for-precision-agriculture/

 

R550

https://rotor.ai/r550-sprayhawk

 

There are also a few unmanned spraying aircraft in the 600-1000kg mtow range available.

 

The only reason we are not seeing these unmanned aircraft in Australia at this stage is the current regulations

If you insisted on incorrectly reading opposition into my statement(s), I have nothing more to say other than I have failed to adequately communicate my position on this matter.

 

I stand by the following statement ;

 

In general, aerial application (no matter the type of aircraft) of agricultural bulk materials (sprays/minerals/fertilisers/manure/seed), can not compete, due to much higher cost, with ground application. Of course there will be exceptions, where terrain, soil condition, crop type, urgency (timing) may change the cost benefit - this does not alter my primary observation. 😈

 

[T510]

1 hour ago, Student Pilot said:

A 3 hectare load? That's a lot of loads on a 1200 hectare block 😜

Yes the technology is possible to have a high capacity aircraft flying autonomously, even spray. In real life it's just not going to happen. There are so many variables to try and allow for that it's an immensely complex task.
Drones are pushed as an answer where any person can do these involved and complicated jobs.
The drone operator will have a wide chemical knowledge, calibration skills, expertise with working gps and programming, weather insight with regard to chemical application and associated drift problems. That's just scratching the surface, obviously an intimate understanding on computer programming and drone aerodynamics would be a pre requisite. How much an hour do you think such a person would be paid? $50? $100? What do you think an agricultural pilot is paid? 
The technology is here, there are capable machines available. The reality of drones replacing all flying industry tasks is a long way away.
Please post where broad acre spraying (commercially viable) is done by drones.

You underestimate the ability of modern unmanned flight controller, There are already companies specializing in converting manned aircraft to unmanned. There is even a company supplying kits so you can convert your own aircraft to unmanned.

 

It's already happening in real life and the flight controller does all the heavy lifting so the pilot only has basic controls to concern themselves with. A vast majority of drone tasks can be done autonomously. Your typical drone ag pilot does all his work before hitting the take off button, including a survey flight of the area with a suitable drone. Then he just monitors the telemetry to make sure he got all the preflight programming right. Flying manually is far to inaccurate compared to autonomous flight 

 

Drones are not the only answer but they make sense for some applications.

 

You massively over estimate the requirements to be a drone pilot, I train heaps of them and they are not that qualified. The current RePL syllabus is based heavily on the PPL syllabus.

That said, these days a drone license is treated more as another accreditation, like a fork lift license. Most of the people I train are surveyors, agronomists, farmers, engineers, geologists, emergency services, educators etc. The drone license is something they need to use a tool that simplifies their job or makes it easier and more accurate to gather data. Typical wages for a basic drone pilot are in the $35-$45/hr range. 

 

As for the spraying side, that is a whole separate issue with different chemical licenses and standards for each state. I believe the AAAA is working on an unmanned version of their SpraySafe accreditation at the moment.  There are plenty of operators offering broadacre spraying services, often using swarms of 3-5 drones per operator. Google will show you heaps of them.

 

Personally I can't ever see drones replacing all flying industry tasks, the current push apart from military applications seems to be ag and unmanned freight.

 

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the UTM (Uncrewed Traffic Management) and airspace changes that Airservices has been working on. 

[Mewp]

Agree with T510. Just had professional operator do 15ha by drone. Effective, efficient and quick with high success  (blackberry, thistle  and sheep burr) .Operated within 5m of tree line along my private plantation boundary. $100/Ha inc chemicals. Operator flew the paddock boundaries, entered wind direction and speed and the software did the rest. Have used helicopters previously with mixed results.

[skippydiesel]

Hi Mewp,

 

Me thinks, in your evident enthusiasm,  you jump the gun somewhat.

 

If you "Just had professional operator do 15ha by drone."; "Effective, efficient and quick with high success" 

• I have no doubt it was "quick"
• Efficiency & success will not be known until the target plants have had time to reacted to the chemicals. Only then will you know for sure that the all or part of the area has been sufficiently treated ie sufficient chemical landing on the target plants to effect a kill and the number (area) of plants so treated.😈

Edited November 8 by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

You are stating the Obvious, but I feel compelled to ask, what experience do you have in chemical spraying in a practical sense? Mewp has put his Money where his Mouth is. He has skin in the game and the survival of his business depends on How he Manages it, Words are cheap.   Nev

[BrendAn]

7 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Hi Mewp,

 

Me thinks, in your evident enthusiasm,  you jump the gun somewhat.

 

If you "Just had professional operator do 15ha by drone."; "Effective, efficient and quick with high success" 

• I have no doubt it was "quick"
• Efficiency & success will not be known until the target plants have had time to reacted to the chemicals. Only then will you know for sure that the all or part of the area has been sufficiently treated ie sufficient chemical landing on the target plants to effect a kill and the number (area) of plants so treated.😈

He could show you 100 percent success results and you would still argue about something. You just enjoy arguing😁

[skippydiesel]

9 hours ago, BrendAn said:

You just enjoy arguing😁 Absolutely! but not without some kernel of truth/fact

He could show you 100 percent success results  If & when this happens I will be delighted to hear from him.

 

Your prerogative - accept premature, overly optimistic,  statements for/against or call them out, as I so often have.😈

Edited November 8 by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

Back to oil pressure/flow at high altitudes;

 

From Rotax Owners Forum;

 

"The oil tank pressure is relative to the atmospheric pressure.  The incoming pressure that drives the oil from the crankcase, from blow-by gas pushing into the crankcase by normal ring leakage, will always keep the pressure over the oil in the tank just slightly higher than ambient.  There is always some light pressure in the top of the oil tank that requires venting.  

In regards to very high altitude this causes oil pressure drop relative to standard oil pressures you see at or near sea level.  High altitude drones sometimes use a device on the oil vent line to trap some of this venting air to keep oil pressures in a more normal range.  These are switched on (I have not seen an automatic one as yet) starting around 20 to 25k MSL.  This maintains the pressure over the oil in the tank to flow better and you see it in less drop of oil pressure compared to without such a device.  The one i am thinking of maintains about 5 psi in the oil tank over ambient."

 

😈

[red750]

This clip is enough to scare the living suitcase out of you. Yes. I saw that it was from Fsx, but scary all the same.

 

25K views · 514 reactions | Chicoteado | Fsx agricola

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Chicoteado

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Couldn't see any spray coming out. They used to spray cotton at night. Nev

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

He could show you 100 percent success results  If & when this happens I will be delighted to hear from him.

 

Your prerogative - accept premature, overly optimistic,  statements for/against or call them out, as I so often have.😈

I am not insulting you. Sorry if it reads that way. I am just saying you love arguing. Maybe I should have said you love debating. 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Couldn't see any spray coming out. They used to spray cotton at night. Nev

Why did they do that. I spoke to an ag pilot years ago .  He said the cotton crop made the horizon hard to make out when flying over it so low at night.

[facthunter]

HE loves disputing. I would not go so far as to infer he is a mass debater. Nev

[BrendAn]

Just now, facthunter said:

HE loves disputing. I would not go so far as to infer he is a mass debater. Nev

When I worked on a charter boat the person in charge of the bait station was the masterbaiter.

[facthunter]

The cotton was sprayed at night because it was more effective against the Heliophus (sp)Moth. Nev

[Mewp]

Skippy, all good. The kill is confirmed. 14 days approx. after spraying. 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

HE loves disputing. I would not go so far as to infer he is a mass debater. Nev

My wife reckons I argue too much but I don't agree with her.

[onetrack]

Doesn't everyone enjoy watching a good drone kill? 😄 

[facthunter]

NOT in UKRAINE.  Nev

[facthunter]

YOU argue All the time!........... NO I Don't..............   You are still doing it NOW. Nev