turboplanner

.......our new free trips to Israel deal.

But there were no takers. Perhaps it was the smell of the  incense, CatP, perhaps it was the long flowing gowns and flea-ridden hair; too much a reminder of the past where Hare Krishnas would run through the streets banging on cymbals and drums and afterwards you'd find you didn't have a wallet.

So the Mosque people ended up in a blnid alley ................... 

It's in the bowels of something, but I don't think the Crimes Act 1914 would be an help.

.......witness should Jehova come along and ................................

7 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

You persist with the idea, that someone is going out of their way to use an inferior product (oil?) therebye, in this comment "Not Warranty"  - voiding warranty. 

 

Who has suggested this???? Quotes please.

 

This idea is either an unfortunate figment of your imagination OR a deliberate attempt to create an argument where there is none.

 

I will state again (will persistence pay off?) - my comments relate to what I see as Rotax forcing their 912iS (& some other engines) to purchase an in house product (XPS oil) that they refuse to publish the specification for  (Note: I believe this is a first for Rotax, previous recommended oil/coolant/etc having published specifications). I see this as unethical marketing - similar attempts by automotive/machinery manufactures, have been so found. Court instructions issued, to make proprietary information, available to independent mechanics and ultimately the public.

 

Just for you Turbs -  IF Rotax make the specification on XPS public, this will enable owners of affected engines , if they wish, able to research other oil manufactures offerings, to see if there ia an oil meeting (exceeding even) the standard set by Rotax for oil to be used in the nominated engines. At no time have I inferred/suggested/advocating using an inferior oil.

 

Using  product (oil) that meets the manufacturer's specifications can not be a cause to void warranty.

Well you've talked yourself into a theory there posing your own questions and providing your own answers but what I was referring to is now many posts back. 

Manufacturing is not a perfect science yet and they still get to choose their own way of resolving issues, or achieving a longer life edge. They are free to choose a novel manufacturing process, exotic materials or exotic lubricants to solve a particular problem. Because there are a lot of people out there,  who use the same lubricant on everything, the cheapest lubricant, what their father used, what Dick Johnson used to use at Bathurst etc. the manufacturers usually change the part so they can get the same long term durability.

Sometimes the cost of the components or lubricant are higher, sometimes the manufactuer absorbs the extra cost of the exotic ingredient. Before 1992, when diesel smoke was still visible under acceleration and Police were issuing roadworthy infringements for "smoky exhausts" on near new trucks some of our fleets had problems in one particular area with one particular group of Police who would sit at the bottom of a long downgrade, and as soon as the driver put his foot down the exhaust would belch black smoke, the truck would be pulled over and a Roadworthy fine would be issued. Where the trucks were within warranty they would arrive at our dealer's workshop with instructions to fix it. We would pull the engine down, rebuild it, check it, and thee weeks later it would be back. The issue was solved at first by our Japanese engineers would found an exotic liquid, "PFM" which dissolved the particles and was airfreighted out in unbranded 20 litre dums. It cost a fortune but we delivered these drums at no cost to the fleets involved, they put some in with each refuel, and the problem was solved until I eventually brokered an agreenment with the local Police based on Ringelmann Chart 3. That's an example of solving a problem with an exotic specification.

4 hours ago, jackc said:

I am more interested in the future policy for training L2s as many of the current problems will solve themselves if we grow the L2 population. IF RAA pull any L2s Authority for what ever reason, then that will be even less people to do L2 work. 
So, will RAA bite the bullet on L2 training?  All I have heard is Crickets………..
 

Someone else found the documents, explained wha was required, not having problems.

31 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I am sorry for you Turbs

Why, I'm not the one who's likely to be told "Not Warranty"

It would be for anyone using sub-standard oil when the Manufacturer was trying to hekp them.

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

It would seem my communication is wanting - is not about price as such , it's about choice.

 

By not stating the standard/specification for the XPS oil Rotax is binding the customer (for this oil) to their distribution network and to their price$/L.

 

As I understand the matte, this is of little consequence to most of the heritage 9 range BUT for the 912iS and some other engines, this is the only oil Rotax recomend. Owners of these engines are unable to shop around because they don't have the necessary oil standard/specification with which to assess other oils.

 

I feel this is an unethical act by Rotax, in line with what some automotive and machinery manufacturers have tried to implement (& failed due to court action). Manufactures must not force the customer to purchase only from themselves.

 

True! - for certified (at any level) aircraft, continued certification/airworthiness is dependent on using manufacturer's approved/certified service/repair components however this is by law not manufactures marketing ploy.

I can only repeat what I said, which I thought was clear enough.

Manufacturers will specify a specific oil where they consider it necessary.

That is for the benefit of the customer, not some pathetic Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Rotax theory.

A friend of mine has a Caterpillar D7 Dozer; Caterpillar specifed a lubricant for a main driveshaft; he found a cheaper alternative; the failure cost him $45,000.00.

These threads are very informative and make a good case for LAME maintenance only.

nuts. In fact they would have done better throwing nuts over the side.

The Australian inverse attitude kicked in and dozens of Politicians reached out to Captain Bull asking to be prawned. Turbine Consulting suggested some business models for him and soon Captain Bull’s Prawning Cruises swung into action bringing Pollies out to the trawler in the R44 “Prawn”. Of course Captain Bull couldn’t catch prawns so ha placed a $1500 order each week for uncooked prawns and he had a business, until.....

....being his petulant best and ordering Captain Bull to pay attention.

As we know, this is not the way to get Captain Bull smiling and compliant and Albo was hit in the face by a handful of 5 day old prawns which ............................

3 hours ago, BurnieM said:

ROTFLMAO 😁

 

Genuine Rotax sparkplug for kart engine (made by NGK).

https://kart-store.com.au/collections/electrical/products/rotax-spark-plug

Have you seen the NGK parts list? it's huge, and all different for a specific purpose.

On 27/02/2024 at 11:00 AM, Blueadventures said:

As oil discussion is for Rotax and they take less than 3 litres (usually 2.8lts) at $19 per litre so only $57 every 50 hours; therefore even if your alternate oil choice is free it's only a $57 saving every 50 hours.  No worth any searching for an alternate product especially considering the gearbox internals needs regarding oil properties.  In my opinion anyone running a Rotax 912 and chooses to run oil other than recommended needs an upper cut, clip under the ear or even a kick up the arse to wake them up.

I agree. Over the years I've seen manufacturers testing product on dynos on multiple engines to get the durability their customers want or their competitors achieve, then other cases where the manufacturer wasn't getting the durability results for long life, couldn't afford to retool, but a certain lubricant solved the problem, then other cases where certain components in certain areas required a different lubricant to survive. They did their tests, got their life cycles right and put their specific lubricating specifications in the owners or workshop manual.

Then along came Australia's own experts, and sure enough their vehicles failed just as the original prototypes failed.

I guess it would stop someone who, say, bought a wreck which had been submerged under the sea and rebuilt it to sell, but unless some documents surface I can understand why the switchgirl would flick people.

6 minutes ago, jackc said:

True but, it’s obvious the system is not working and enforcement as it stands seems to have problems.  Then RAA’s crash.  investigations policy……?

Nothing's obvious, this is starting to look like a men's shed beat up, so I'd suggest you post the documents so people can see for themselves.

1 minute ago, jackc said:

I make many assumptions in my life to spawn criticism and comment,  it’s done in an effort for more authoritive  people to clear the air or stimulate debate on an issue that has problems.

We have people state problems with ACRs and possible enforcement of their credibility.

So where to now?  Knowing human beings, I suspect not much…….

The documents.....................

.......be interrogated on possible Chinese associations by ASIO.

Albo, who had taken over running ASIO after the discord by Malaysia at the ASEAN summit, even though they were all wearing catchy pink outfits, said "I'm onto this onion ring operator; he needn't come the raw prawn with me!"

But would he be good enough to round up the crafty Captain Bull who once sailed a prawn trawler into 

Emerald; no mean feat because Emerald is not on the sea.

Albo had been given ....................................

.....Sea Captains in Australian History (except for Captain Cook of course) AND he can fly a Jacka, or several other home made planes.

"They weren't home made!" bristled Captain Bull, "I built them when I was a chef at the Bone RSL!"

The comment was changed to "several other cooked and slotted planes" and everyone was happy except .......

34 minutes ago, jackc said:

The whole thing as it stands, could turn into a legal minefield……. No one wants to go there but, if there is a dispute for whatever reason……it will cost someone time and money.

Really, As has been said it’s  right being the aircraft sellers or buyers responsibility to  get their aircraft checked before sale/purchase. Just like it’s the PICs responsibility for all check lists to be run before and during and after flight.
In my case I detailed a work list to the dealer I bought from. It was allegedly done and signed off, in reality it did not happen.  I did my own inspection later and grounded the aircraft.

So I accepted the fact it was up to me to make it airworth and get it signed off.

We could probably argue all this for weeks and get nowhere, but I suspect angst from people against  some RAA decisions.

Now back to my question asked a few days back…..can RAA request your logbook, for their inspection? 

 

None of that sounds like a normal process, maybe just someone’s talk. The documents should make it clearer.

Just now, onetrack said:

And once again, the Police refer to the aircraft as, "homemade"!!   

Was it a factory build?

42 minutes ago, facthunter said:

If they toughen up on the requirements for a "CONDITION" report, who in their right mind would do it if the SHOW doesn't back you up.. The owner/operator has the responsibility for it's continued airworthiness same as in GA or Airlines.    Nev

Depends on how the process is written.

13 minutes ago, KRviator said:

SO why the drop from 10 straight years of 300,000 movements in the early 90's?

Look at '89 - did they get to 400K that year? Seems like the last time Morabbin made it over 300K was 15 years ago - and I'd actually question how many of these movements recently had numbers on the side when back in the day, AUF was verboten from CTA/CTR, so everything you'd see 'back then' had to be VH-.

And I think your trend line is broken. There's no trend, it looks to be static at around 290,000 movements.

The trend line shows the business volume had been viable for 62 years.

If you want to continually run an industry down, don't stay in it.

.......try to get the jump on Turbo.  He thought quickly and fed them to the lions. Albo didn't need to worry about the "name" coming out, the press moved on until someone noticed...........................

I went checking for some meaningful facts, and was able to get 62 years of history of Moorabbin movements by calendar year.

The dotted line is the auto-generated trend line.

The green line shows that for 60 years Moorabbin has had 200,000 movements or more

Companies would kill for stability like that.

.......so he could relocate them. Turbo was torn between catching them and starting a breeding programme and elimination the competition. As a CIA operative he had access to Satellite vision he’d been thinking that if he herded them all into a 747 Fedex freighter, locked the Captain and copilot in and nailed som chipboard sheets on the crew should be safe whe who should walk into view heading for the lion office but our favourite politician ....

...........Pekinese Rockies."

Turbo realised then that the Chinese had cloned his cats and were, even as we speak, operating a Giant Cat Farm. This couldn't be allowed to go on so .................