turboplanner

And just what do you propose should be done about that, in the context of this thread? One cannot legislate against stupidity, unfortunately. Or perhaps, fortunately, or the population would be greatly reduced, one suspects.

I would park the aircraft Dafydd.

 

 

Four people have been killed in Victoria where the least worst action would have been to close the inadequate "airfields" where there was no chance for any pilot with an EFATO because of thick forest.

 

 

I'm not suggesting anyone is being dumbed down; I'm suggesting that if you are handing out advice on a public forum you cannot leave any sector out, you have to have a very simple, foolproof answer.

 

 

Ermmm - what? If you are climbing in a Foxbat at 54kts and the engine quits and you do nothing for a full 3 seconds in a genuine EFATO you're as good as dead anyway.

That's why I advocate straight ahead; you have a better survival chance. RACV at one stage had a test rig simulating a car brake and accelerator pedal, and a dash light. The operator would flick the light and the machine measured the time taken to touch the brake pedal. The average driver time was 0.5 of a second. That's when he was primed there was a light coming.

 

We'd never let a student solo unless their first reaction every time, within about 0.2 seconds, was to get the nose down.

That's just a fraction outside the reaction time for a Formula One driver, but if they can stay under half a second that's great

However, again the person doing the test knew it was coming, if not from a prior briefing, then from an expectation knowing the Instructor's habits.

 

So the answer is no, but I did hesitate more than I would expect even a novice pilot to, about 0.5 second to 1 second.

It's the unexpected event which takes the time from a fraction of a second to several seconds. You may have just had lunch, had never even had the slightest miss in an engine before, but this time there's a bang and a heap of smoke and you have to transfer from reflexes to brain analysis. I've known some people to take maybe five seconds and are still trying to process what's happening.

That two or three second margin which is required would probably put your test heights up with what those of us who advocate straight ahead are saying.

 

Sure some people will reflex act - the guy in the glider cable break did with me, but you have to allow for all the people who fly, not just the Bob Hoovers.

 

 

Did you two allow two to three seconds for a genuine "what's happening" surprise? or someone who decides to follow his forced landing procedure instead of EFATO?

 

 

Oscar, I'm the reverse of you. I've only had two flights in a glider, a Blanik.

 

The first one was a cable break. A bang at maybe 100 feet, the pilot put the nose straight down, got it flying and landed straight ahead on the Benalla strip.

 

The second stunned me with the difference in the sensitivity of the rudder and ailerons compared wit a powered aircraft, the ability to sense what was happening by the slipstream noise, which is not available in powered aircraft, the amazingly shallow glide along with left at every thermal, which a Cherokee would just crunch through, and finally the greater control by being able to flick onto what to me was an impossibly short final, turn straight and throw the brakes on which seemed bit like a hand brake turn in a car, then just float along a meter or so above the grass for what seemed as long as we liked.

 

Your reference to "muscle memory" is much the same as my recommendation of practicing until the action becomes subconscious. That's where your reaction can shorten down to hundredths of a second - in normal flying you'll notice in time that you can look down and see your hand just moving on the controls automatically correcting, where, when you were learning to fly and had to think first you wondered if you would ever be able to control the aircraft.

 

As far as applying some of the more complicated sequences you and other gliding people have suggested, the advice may be good but I think there is too much detail to ram into the subconscious of the average powered pilot. Certainly it could be done, but if people aren't spending the time to learn fuel burn and weight calculations, and navigation planning before a they are probably not going to commit the amount of money it takes to be trained on those gliding principles. For example, when I fluffed a few landings in the early unmodified J170 in gusty conditions, I spend $7000.00 bullet proofing myself until I could be sure of touching down at the exact optimum angle. I'd suggest the same training in a glider would have cost a fraction of that.

 

Effectively every landing in a glider is a forced landing, other than you know where the landing is going to be, so all the training is based on that. With a powered aircraft the training covers other aspects, and most pilots will never have an EFATO, or even a forced landing, so it's not seen as such an urgent issue.

 

However in recent years unnecessary spins and stalls into the ground have been on the increase, so we need a simple procedure which will be largely subconscious, and never forgotten regardless of wither the recency status of the pilot is up to scratch.

 

I know right now sitting here that the nose is going down and I am going to take the gear off possibly, but I'm going to hit objects only at about the flare speed.

 

 

Nor have I, this guy was killed by power lines at 29'6"

 

 

........based on the manifesto of Hitler. That one was quickly confiscated by Customs, and went missing from the Confiscated Things office.

 

Rumours emerged that it had been offered around to the best bidder among the Bureaucratic network and the winner was..........................

 

 

BIG difference M between a forced landing and an EFATO, which is what this thread is about. In an EFATO you have fractions of seconds to react, and Mat is right on the money on being ready for it.

 

 

.........and power line grids in country areas have increased exponentially since the 1970's. Around the populated districts you can virtually count on a powerline somewhere across every property, most of them near invisible single wire lines, as state power companies have managed to service virtually every country house, and often surrounding sheds which can be half a kilometre away.

 

 

going back to the tread after the grisly truth about the length some people have to go to to keep their aircraft in the air:

 

...we hadn't yet reached the Facebook era where everyone has picked up the verbal form of Sanskrit. They haven't got it quite right yet - OMG in Sanskrit really means "I present myself backwards", but who cares.

 

Sp when the script was written partially in Sanskrit, it could present some very embarrassing situations for actors like Ahlot (who was an Act in himself), and B12 who not only.......

 

 

If you want to improve your skills or get a great insight into Australia's navigation systems of the day, take a look at the long thread on prune (I think there might be about three now, but the long one is the best. Some very skilled people carried out their research and analysis and then debated to pros and cons with each other - some brilliant minds,

 

 

.........."Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to work we go............" which drew a rousing cheer and standing ovation from the audience, which on that night consisted of a block booking of the Ramp Checking department of CASA who.....

 

 

"...........I don't know how to flyyyyyeeeee", but trouble was brewing with the script.......

 

 

......is expected to seamlessly float out above the audience while singing..................

 

 

....Urgin Mary, is going to be the Choirboy - silent of course, but sure to be a hit in his little red jumpsuit. Epaulette is going to be the newborn baby Jesus, and Ahlot will be the lamb. Ratso of course is the donkey, Salty , B12 and-bull will be the three wise men from the East, and......

 

 

That probably answers your question Ultra

 

 

.........soft-terrain-skids-with-space-bars, which after some use turn black and blue unless the landings are very soft, or on one wing, followed by a neatly executed nose-over, in which case the skids are often a pink colour.

 

We won't identify the preferred aircraft make for this type of landing in case we trigger off a major debate on:

 

(a) How Tony Abbott has victimised these planes by making them flip over

 

(b) How this is the real cause of global warming

 

© That Jesus really was the fifth member of the Beatles

 

(d) ..............

 

 

Never mind dazza's identitity which is an optional noun; I like the idea of this liarbility insurance for my clothes.

 

 

A fine focuses the mind and may ensure that proper fuel management is undertaken therefore mitigating the possibility of a lack of fuel and a resultant crash into the local school during school hours.In NSW cars are only rego checked once a year but there a loads of cars and trucks out there waiting to cause serious accidents (including death) because of vehicle faults. If the cops did safety checks when they were doing booze checks we might have fewer deaths.

Deaths and injuries due to mechanical faults are very very low; you will be able to find the break down in State statisics, so you can compare States requiring an annual inspection with states that don't and the last time I looked the difference was negligible.

 

This is because, although a vehicle may e unroadworthy, a serious crash has to involve an element going back to that component. For example you may have no brakes at all but that doesn't cause your death if you are sideswiped by a drunk, and is usually quickly established by the police investigation. What does seem to cause deaths is a sudden failure of a suspension or steering component which spears a car off the road, and that is very rare.

 

 

It matches most of the submissions which were very light on with specifics, so a heap of wriggle room, no real timelines, and no specific processes. Those who are used to setting or evaluating kpi's in Companies will know the pattern.

 

It does put some discussion subjects out there which could be worked on though. but I suspect the initiative would have to come from the operating side of the industry rather than CASA

 

 

".........You might be a space man, but will that two stroke make a full stop at 300 feet [full of avrefs PLaney], or......."

 

 

".........in that case the first course will be Big Angus Bull medallions, so as Mrs Beaton used to say 'first catch your bull!', and......

 

 

No, these are just genuinely concerned citizens, and while Bryon is right it gets a bit painful being dressed as a pepper shaker after an hour or so.

 

 

I would agree with you about theories - they are just educated guesses at best.

 

However in the case of hard evidence the scientists have every right to defend the truth, and that may seem like looking down their noses, but they don't have to budge.

 

Unfortunately for millions of people now and in the future some of their group decided to put spin on the evidence to speed up the population's understanding, and that's not acceptable, and spectacularly backfired.

 

What is now needed is to rule a line under all that, kick those wankers out of the industry and start again with evidence based management.