turboplanner

Firstly my shirt, I was going to upload this on the day but couldn't from my phone. (I don't mind if anyone wants to copy it, it may suit a few here:amazon:)[ATTACH=full]52302[/ATTACH]

 

Next my Little girl. Note the FREE face painting! Also note the "reasonable" barrier between us and the air show.

 

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My little boy, Note the smile and paper aeroplane. (Face was painted but I don't think to take pictures that make sense.)

 

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Next is the paper plane competition which was a huge hit with the kiddies, it was a fair lineup to have a go! Note the planes not separated from the children by anything other than air! Ps my little fella in the under 5 paper plane division scored a neat bag with a nice hat and drink bottle. (Could have gone to all under fives but not sure as I wasn't there) he was stoked and hasn't taken the hat off since.

 

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And for good measure a couple of pics of "the fence". Note the people walking freely to and fro on the far side of it. I didn't count the planes that flew in but considering the weather it was IMHO a good turnout.

 

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Thanks SQ - Proves the point doesn't it.

 

 

edited...mod

 

 

Not so long ago people were complaining that there was no national Fly-In planned.RAA and other bodies got together and risked lots of money to organise one, but people are still dissatisfied.

How many? 5, 10, 15?

 

Sorry, this is what threads are for ,,to discuss /debate etc etc if it hurts you too much to hear the truth , maybe just don't look at the thread..................................... (edited...mod).............

bull you already said that you weren't at the show to see the fence, so you are in no position to highlight anything other than hearsay; and he is poteroo, ...(edited..mod)One thing I am curious about; no none of the usual photos seem to have surfaced ( but if you have some please start a more positive thread.)

 

 

It was a commitment all round in the Lancaster; if the pilot copped a bullet, you were all for it, although an amazing number of people successfully baled out.

 

 

My Mate 'Chalkie' down at the 'Dog and Duck' pub. . .now renamed. . ( And Chalkie's funeral was nearly 3 years ago. . .) .used to tell me that HE was one of the Best pilots in WW2, ( 1943 to 45 ) as he Never got shot down, and all his Lancasters returned to England,.although not always at the same base ( ! ) with very few dead crew, and never had to crash land. He then operated in the Berlin Airlift flying Dakotas. I feel sad that I never asked if he'd ever barrel rolled a Lanc. . .( ! )

Being sole pilot with all that crew would have been a huge weight on your shoulders.

 

 

Don't be sitting there with a list of questions. This is the time to absorb everything you are feeling, everything the instructor is saying, the reaction of the aircraft to your inputs, and the thrill of flying. You'll have so many questions afterwards, you won't need to ask us.

 

 

I haven't read all the posts here but my take on it is that the fence was to make sure money was not lost. There is no need for a fence, as Old Station demonstrates.I am a member of Callie Dawson club and missed the last meeting, so the fly in next year is a surprise to me. I can assure everyone it will be. A good fly in and Old Station will not be held next year.

Bull actually contacted Airventure and got the reason - see his post above, so there is no point in furthet speculation.

 

 

Just rang and have found out why,see my post Turbo, very sad,,

Good work bull.

 

 

AND why it was used as if you look closely at some of the photos, you can see a perfectly good 1 mt high wire fence right behind the monstrosity fence they used,,,,,,SO it comes back to WHY????????????

It's even more clear that nobody here knows why so:

If you want to know, go the the Airventure site, find an email or phone address, and then ask them.

 

 

From jetjr statement above who was there, sounds like a safety reason to me.................

Others have said they were free to walk around aircraft, so it's still just a guessing game.

If the fence was for separation which is normal for safety reasons, it doesn't have to be like the ones described; it's the results which count. For example at a major international aerobatics show at, I think, Ballarat some years ago, the competitors taxied THROUGH the spectator area. As each aircraft taxied out two marshals pulled some orange netting tight, creating a taxy lane in the spectator area and we were able to get within a couple of metres of the aircraft; after it passed the spectator area opened up again. High fences, catch fences are needed when there is a chance of a car, bike or component flying off a track into a crowd, and this is not going to happen at an airshow. The major threat comes from the air, and there are very good protocols for the flying display boundaries in the air, which are way better than a couple of kilometres of fencing.

 

Separating people from live aircraft where a prop strike might occur or they might be run down by a taxying aircraft is necessary, but separating them from a static display is primarily for the protection of the aircraft from kids, and not only kids, running along the tops of wings, filling fuel tanks with soft drinks etc.

 

So it's back to "what was the fence for?"

 

 

bull, so far as far as I can see there has been no official explanation for the purpose of the fences, so there is no point manufacturing a safety reason, coming up with a hypothetical prop contact or showing us shows where there weren't six foot fences.

 

You would be better off contacting Airventure, and finding out the reason for yourself. If it was to ensure entry payments, then maybe there is a better way it could be done next time.

 

It doesn't seem likely that the fence was used for safety reasons.

 

 

If that was the Bob Hoover we know, and it sounds like him, that's two more crashes added to his total of dozens; I must rsearch it one day, because it's around 30, and way more than any other pilot I know of.

 

Having said that, I still rate him the best in the world.

 

 

I'm about to start my flying journey (again) and thinking of gaining an rpc. Is gaining an rpc then transferring to rpl still considered the most economical route? I would really love to fly in controlled airspace one day. I'm in Sydney so I have the choice the more costly RPL option at Bankstown or Camden and training immediately in controlled airspace and atc procedures. However, for $100 cheaper per hour i can choose rpc journey outside of Sydney. Just wondering if rpc may be cheaper initially but maybe not so much if I transfer to rpl at a later date and then have to spend more hours learning all the procedures at a controlled aerodrome?

It would pay you to go back to the start of this thread, which is a bit of a reality check on what at first looks like a cheaper solution, but doesn't necessarily finish up that way at all.

 

 

No Cookies | NT News

 

Hmmmmmmm...........

 

 

I can understand the professionals wanting to wait the months before the due process of preliminary report and the years before the final report. I have full confidence in ATSB, and ATSB have the task of producing a definitive report (and I note it's not ATSB wanting to stop speculation), but that process is not much good to us for the here and now, and in some cases, a series of fatalities can occur before the official release of the first report. I don't think anyone thinks they are posting the cause of the event, and it's the side discussions the subject prompts, that have proven to be of most benefit to future generations.

 

It might seem harsh, but if you are going to seriously take a look at an accident, you have to forget about the personalities involved. Now and again the great friend and life of the party, caused the problem

 

I can only remember two family members who came on to this site, one prompted by a member, who expressed concerns which were quickly allayed by several people explaining to her what we were trying to do and where we were heading, and she was most appreciative, and the other who was thankful to us for confirming her own thoughts.

 

There are quite a few reasons other than corrosion/SIDS relationship that can cause wings to come off a 210. It varies from the C206 in that it doesn't have wing struts, and the leads some people to conclusions, but the two aircraft are built for different applications, the C206 being more of a truck vs a 210 car.

 

Handling a rain shower in a 210 is a quite a lot different than it is in a Drifter, with a lot less options.

 

Its cruise speed is around 200% faster than a Drifter, 106% faster than 80 kt cruise, and around 65% faster than a Jab.

 

In that far shorter time, to ensure correct wing loading, you have to make decisions on Prop Pitch, and Gear as well as flaps.

 

So the rain shower could be a factor.

 

Also, previous pilots may have stressed the airframe; I saw a 172 looping on one occasion, so the first time there was any rough weather, the previous damage could have kicked in.

 

 

I always thought the C210 had a previous reputation for shedding wings many years ago...?

Only with excessive G

 

 

EMERGENCY services have confirmed two people have died in a plane crash in Darwin’s rural area.The aircraft, a Cessna 210, was scheduled to land at Darwin Airport.

 

The wings have separated from the body of the aircraft.

 

The wreck is located on Gunn Point Rd, Howard Springs.

 

Police have identified the bodies and are working on contacting next of kin before providing any further details.

Any ideam of weather conditions? Turbulence?

 

 

At Oshkosh this year there were NO fences apart from around the whole venue to keep non-payers out. There were hundreds of thousands of people, thousands of airplanes, tens of thousands of aircraft movements and not a single case of an idiot walking into a prop, anywhere. But here in Oz (according to CASA) we're not to be trusted!

It's time someone found out from RAA what the purpose of the fence was; it's sounding very much like it was to ensure payment, particularly if as some reports indicate, it was possible to walk, unrestricted, among aircraft. There would be no point isolating some, but not others on any safety grounds.

 

 

Whats SPEEDWAY??? is that that thing we all used to go to on Friday or Saturday night with all the great racing and smash up derbys etc hav,nt seen one around here for ages, oh I think they might have the high end sprint cars every blue moon in Mackay but any where else up here ,,,NOPE ,used to be a great track at Ayr but gone now ,used for motocross now,,,,so I think your blowing bubbles Turbo....................................

As it happens I attended a great meeting at Mackay in May/June with about 60 cars ranging from super sedans to Formula 500s. Guys came in from Emerald to Townsville.

It was as good as a capital city meeting. The one exception was a few sedans with sprintcar wings on top; they were as slow as a wet week and the front wing mounts broke on one, and he finish the race with the wing sitting vertically.

 

 

From your comments Turbo, I rather think you might be referring to the 'Australia-wide world of Victoria', rather than 'Australia - wide'From everything that I've experienced in regional areas, and even more so in remoter areas, motorsports just don't exist anymore, except, where the tracks might still remain, as an occasional travelling circus of semi- or full-time professionals, much like the V8s.

Over the past couple of hours I've analysed the readily available statistics, and what I said about Victoria is repeated around Australia.

 

We've been talking about Speedway. Other forms of Motorsport, particularly those administered by CAMS certainly are nothing like they used to be - but they are not speedway.

 

"The reasons cited for the closing of the previously weekly events was the increased cost of event insurance and dwindling spectator patronage for three reasons - their isolation from the action by layers of catch fencing at the insurers' insistence, huge gate fee increases and predatory police surveillance over drivers departing the venue.

We negotiated PL Insurance on a per race meeting basis in the 1980s, and were able to bring costs under control.

 

We set the safety fence height at 1.5 metres, and catch fence top at 4.2 metres with a cant, also in the mid 1980s.

 

So those two items are very old news, and we faced no major obstacles on either.

 

Gate fees are determined by the promoter, so there could be some gouging, but spectatpr levels indicate that they are reasonably in line with inflation.

 

Most speedways went dry in the 1980s in Victoria, and police presence quickly faded, but I'm not sure about other States.

 

Try a fact-finding trip around the outback and see how many motorsport events you can attend ...The only places you'll still find them is in major mining towns where the only competitive contenders are the long-term mine managers who have the pay packet to afford it ...

Once again you are talking motorsports, and the discussion is about speedway; in Victoria the 1980s are still operating the only exception I could find was Nhill. Most of the names in the other States are familiar to me, but some could have dropped out; the situation has always been fluid.

 

Entry level? ... nope!

You probably won't pick up a $50.00 car any more ready to race, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could get one ready to race for $500.00. That's what I call entry level; a lot of teenagers race today.

However, the proof is in the pudding; in the mid 1980s we insured 105 race tracks Australia-wide.

 

Over the last couple of hours, I've identified 109 tracks and that's not all of them; I can't pick up the smaller independent tracks you may be referring to.

 

There's no fall off in tracks; we've grown steadily.

 

I also identified 68 classes of cars and bikes. That's grown substantially, and there are plenty of open wheelers racing all over the country.

 

Speedway is integrated vertically by car class, so most have their own National Body which decides things like specifications and championships.

 

It is horizontally integrated by States, reflecting State laws, and distances.

 

 

 

 

Luckily I wasn't doing it.

 

 

I'm just back from having a trade site at Airventure.I think that it was a good first effort for the organisation and improvements and changes will make the next one better.

The weather was a problem for the first two days and a lot of pilots and aircraft could not get there. Jabiru not making

 

it left a noticeable hole as I was particularly looking forward to seeing the new Gen 4 engines. The trade sites being

 

relatively expensive did lead to a predominance of sites aimed at the "upper end of the market".

That's an opportunity to get the message across for some communication with supplers to get a critical mass balance on price where big numbers of traders will come in

It's a common conundrum for promoters of trade shows, but simply if hafl the price will guarantee twice the suppliers, the promoter has his base cost covered, plus he gets additional revenue from more people through the gates, plus those extra trade sites will pull more visitors, particularly after the first year after word gets around. It would be very interesting to compare the number of trade site from 2008/10 to this year, and then do some work on what might attract more traders.

 

 

Cough, cough, bullcoughsh1t cough.If you're at the top. you got no idea what you've done to the bottom end. People like you are doing it to rec flying as well.

So far you haven't actually come out with anything factual; you can still go to a wreckers, build up a car yourself, and race it once or twice a month, just as you always could.

There are a lot of lessons in that Australia-wide network for RAA.

 

 

There used to be a lot more to speedway than sedans and sprintcars. Alive and well is not a term I would use.

Absolute utter rubbish!, not to mention very misleading.

Just going back to the VSC, they currently administer:

 

Goulburn Ovens Sedans

 

Sports Sedans

 

Unlimited Sedans

 

Formula 500

 

Standard saloons

 

Standard saloons - Ladies

 

SDAV Hot Rods

 

Limited Sportsman

 

VSC Sprintcars

 

V8 Supermodified

 

Division 2 Hot Rods

 

Mini Sprints

 

Super Rods

 

Thunder Sedans

 

Standard Saloons - Juniors

 

Add to that some of the National bodies

 

SRA Sprintcars

 

Speedcars

 

Compact Speedcars

 

Speedway Sidecars Speedway sidecar photos

 

Speedway Go Karts

 

Super Sedans

 

Solo Speedway Bikes

 

FIA Solo Speedway Bikes

 

The FIM Speedway Grad Prix held at Etihad Stadium in Melbourne is the biggest indoor motorsports event in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

I apologise to speedway people for leaving out probably another 20 classes.

 

The VSC adminsters its classes; the other classes are administered through their own Federal Bodies, by volunteers.

 

National Administration of all these groups is by Speedway Australia.

 

Speedway Australia describes its structure as: The corporate structure of the organisation includes a company (Pty Ltd) and an Incorporated (Inc) association operating under the direction of a common board (Speedway Australia Board). The Pty Ltd side of Speedway Australia acts as the commercial arm of the company, while the Incorporated side of Speedway Australia is responsible for running the sport of Speedway.

 

Speedway today provides entry levels to the whole family, with affordable bikes, sedans and open wheelers, all the way up to the elite National and International competition classes.

 

 

I guess it might pay to get the real reason for the fencing.