skippydiesel

6 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

okay let me put this another way,

Rotax are owned by BRP.

BRP also own Evinrude, Johnson and Sea-Doo

If it was as simple as modifying the marine engines to an aircraft - wouldn't you think they would have done it so save millions in research.
ive seen plenty of motorcycle engines marinised for PWC's. but only the Konig done the other way around.
with the exception of a few one-off drag bikes... but they had problems with the cooling system and cooked the motors after a few minutes total run time despite electric pumps and large radiators.
the engines are designed for constant flow of cool water, an endless supply from the ocean/lake. they can exchange far more heat through the fluid and run thinner water jackets, as opposed to closed loop systems where the fluid is always at a warm temperature. (which is why we run coolant to increase the boiling point past that of water)

closest bet would be a seadoo motor (1600cc, supercharged at 300HP) they run a closed loop system for the engine (using the ride plate submerged in water as a heat exchange) but even they use the surrounding water to cool the inter-cooler and exhaust.

Actually coolant has more to do with minimising electroless and preventing freezing, than raising boiling point which is controlled by having a closed loop/sealed cooling system fitted with a pressure relive valve (radiator cap).

I am guessing howver it seems to me that the transfer of heat from your combustion chamber to the surrounding liquid ( air, water based or other) has more to do with surface area and time in contact. All liquids will have a maximum capacity to absorb  heat _ in short your logic sounds doubtful - try again.

.Also your logic vis a v "if it was as simple as modifying the marine engines to an aircraft - wouldn't you think they would have done it so save millions in research"  does not "gel" with me. There are a host of reasons, many not engineering, why a manufacturer may not adapt a basic engine design to different applications - you have just touched on one possibility.

Just now, turboplanner said:

You mean?:

1. Make sure $30.00 phone is turned on.

2.Go to app

3. Press the field 

You assume $30 phone has app.

 Even if it does wont go there simply because my phone is a phone, I have no intention of using it far anything else.

I dont text either (except under pressure) in my life a phone is for verbal comms - texting is rude

4 hours ago, KRviator said:

It's my understanding you're correct about Tresspass, yes, and you would be guilty of that if you remained after being asked to leave, however, what is commonly thought of as Tresspass (Going onto someone's property without being asked) is covered in a different, quite old, law in NSW - where you are still in violation of the Inclosed Lands Protection Act.

I

 

All good stuff KR - one the matter of trespass - I like you understand that you may legally enter any property (at least once) - the exceptions are:

Properties that are clearly signposted no entry/trespassers prosecuted without land holder/managers permission. Even if so posted entry for legitimate purpose  would be enough to prevent any charge sticking.

As you advised - You may not remain after being asked to leave or denied entry by land holder/manager.

Emergency response/situation, even by a private citizen

Pursuit of your own livestock

Repair/maintenance/erection of shared boundary fence

Follow a creek/river, as long as you do not stray more than one"chain" (cricket pitch) from the bank

Then there are a host of "officials" who have the right to wonder over your property without your permission

27 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

For the few who can't cope with technology there are special arrangements being advised regularly by the State Health Departments the go-to places for Covid or other health issues.

Not cant cope - just dont want to go there and have some expensive  bulky tool, forever in my hand/pocket - simple mobile phone is more than enough for me..

51 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

And it is 100% politics that has got us into this mess. Our slow vaccination start was obviously known right from the start but Scomo chose to lie by big noting himself about the millions of doses he'd secured and everyone would be fully vaccinated by October. Then he said shipments had been delayed. Total BS he never even had a delivery schedule when making those big noting announcements.

 

NZ had an equally slow vaccination start but it was based on supply not orders and their top priority was all front line workers. There is a plan and they were at 100 to 102% of the plan from the start with all front line workers vaccinated before Delta arrived. 

 

We are at the bottom of the world with small populations and at the time were almost Covid free. The Vaccine producers were in the Covid ravaged places in the heavily populated Europe and N America. Obviously that is where the priority for vaccine delivery was going to be but don't let reality get in the way of self promotion. Then start changing advice almost daily when a side effect issue appears, blow it out of all proportion with the press sow the seeds of fear in sectors of the public & then try to remove all that. A lot of people used to call Trump a F***ing moron, now we have one.

 

Now that NSW & Victoria have admitted defeat on controlling the virus the Pollies have unsurprisingly changed tune again. Aren't we doing well with the vaccination numbers. Don't mention front line workers, exhausted paramedics, Emergency Room and ICU staff as well as inadequate facilities.

Agree KG - however I am not so sure about "admitted defeat on controlling the virus" - this seems to me to be a deliberate failure (could any Gov be so incompetent by accident) to implement timely and appropriate controls. The aim to open the nation to international movement ASAP, probably due to pressure from big business interests, pursuing the almighty dollar, who dont give a fig for the impact this policy may have on our people.

11 hours ago, jackc said:

The reason we have so many problems is bureaucratic decisions gone wrong, Ruby Princess comes to mind as a starter.  The list continues…….

States and Federal Govts arguing with each other….. 

It seems to me that the Ruby Princess debacle, was the first sign (to the public at large) that the Federal Government was/had not been discharging its responsibilities for National boarder bio security.

In delegating this important role to the States , we had/have every State putting its own interpretation on what department would be responsible and what those responsibilities & powers might be - in short no he National approach that any sane logical person might expect.

So in the case of NSW/Ruby Princess the responsible agency was, sort of, the Department of Agriculture (go figure). I can only assume that because Agriculture tends towards monitoring animal/plant pests that someone in their wisdom that adding human pathogen surveillances/control was the way to go - they were  wrong! Agriculture dis not have/understand its role, powers (if any) or the chain of command (absent).

I assume that every other nation has its boarder security (customs/immigration/bio,financial/threat /law security) under the one organisation or at least its front line (the uniformed people at the boarder) team - not so Au

7 hours ago, spenaroo said:

Cooling will be the bike issue, same problem with adapting an outboard to power a motorcycle.

"Outboard motors are cooled by water circulated from the surface they are racing on, which means the coolant temperature is always low and heat can be dissipated quickly. This isn’t the case with liquid cooled land-based engines, which re-circulate the coolant through a radiator. Temperatures are controlled, but the coolant remains relatively (scalding) hot – if the coolant passages and water jackets aren’t designed to deal with this elevated temperature you run into problems... Which is exactly what happened with the König motor. Through trial and error an effective radiator system was developed along with a unique cooling system for the crankcases. Normally liquid cooled engines only need to directly cool the barrels and sometimes the heads. Two-strokes, however, route their fuel charge through the crankcases before being sucked into cylinders. If the crankcases get too hot, the intake charge gets overheated and power suffers. This was a problem with the König, so Kim developed a clever liquid-cooled magnesium sump bolted to the bottom of the engine to keep temperatures in check."

https://www.odd-bike.com/2013/04/konig-500-gp-outboard-powered-underdog.html

Sorry cant see it -  . As I understand it, all liquid cooled (IC) engines operate within the same small temperature range - to low and they loose efficiency, to high they may suffer catastrophic failure. No matter the coolant source (body of water/ sealed cooling system) there must be controls on the amount of cooling, so that the engine can run at its optimum temperature.

FYI - I am one of those heretics, who thinks conventional 2/ should be restricted to chain saws & the like.

I have always understood that , with the exception of an emergency, landing on private property, without permission, is an offence in law.

I have no idea how glider/balloon pilots seem to get away with their frequent unplanned (location) landings - I suspect it is completely at the discretion of the landholder whether charges are brought.

I have never "taken" to the idea of urinating into a bottle while conventionally (not a toilet) seated, especially in the semi reclining position of many sport aircraft - seems to be fraught with potential for spillage.

I usually plan my trips in 2-3 hr stages, to allow for bladder & muscular relief - so the desperate search for a convenient landing ground has never eventuated..

7 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

And yet even the most recalcitrant states in the US have better vaccination rates than here. I'm sure we will over take them soon, but it shows how much Australia has dragged it's feet when even Georgia has a higher rate of vaccination.

 

I think the lottery idea has merit. I cant remember the exact figures, but one state in the US introduced it and gave away say $6 million and saved say $60 in medical expenses.

 

Give people a chance to win a million bucks and let's see how many people remain sitting on the fence 😄

Until NSW decided to go its own way (egged on/supported by Scomo) and open the door to CV19/Delta, the Australian public had little incentive to get vaccinated - why would you?

For the most part ,we were at Zero Community Transmission (no hurry then), when there were so many contradictory messages coming from above,  about AZ risk, compared with Pfizer, Moderna, etc. Might as well wait for the "safe" jab (FYI no such thing - all vaccines carry a degree of risk).

Anyhow there were bugger all vaccines in the country and providers few & far between, so waiting lists were almost" eternal"

So now our dollar/big business driven leaders, have decided it is cheaper to get as many vaccinated as possible, prior to unleashing Delta on the population (thanks Gladys/Scomo).

Fear is a great motivator - we will catch up with the international vaccination rate, for one simple reason, we will like them have Delta loose in our country - mainly the unvaccinated, will suffer, die, live with long term disability

How will our health system cope? No problemo ! according the the NSW/Federal politicians - how is it then, we already have "ambulance ramping" ? The signs are not good.

What impresses me about the Yamaha engines (the only brand I have looked at) is the compactness, power to weight ratio, high continuose engine speed (rpm range that can basically be halved, a la Rotax, to give a good prop speed) all of which are applicable to aircraft.

The way I see it is - when it comes to aero engines there are 2 1/2 main camps;

The died in the wool, traditionalist who who cant see past air cooled, direct drive, large capacity donks.

The born again ( mainly Rotax)  crowd, who have found the light,  in liquid cooled, geared, high rpm engines

The 1/2 bunch who understand that both of the above have their applications.

Gearbox/redrives are no longer rocket science - with adequate investment/technology, I am 100% confident that an appropriate system could be developed.

Don know if Yamaha are typical of outboard engines but if you already have an engine that is designed to run at high continuose power, in a nice compact lightweight package, you are inherently  way ahead of auto engine conversions.

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

Outboard engines are not really suitable for aircraft. There is no gearbox that can be used in an aircraft. The engines are mounted by the PTO end of the engine. The exhaust is integral with the block, relies on water cooling and exits at the PTO end. In the case of 4-strokes the oil sump is designed for vertical shaft orientation.

 

Having said all that the Mercury "tower of power" in line 6 cylinder 2 stroke would be cool in an un cowled aircraft. 

 

Snow mobile engines from Yamaha and others have been used with great success. The twin cyl 4 strokes using a Rotax C gearbox look like a good option for 582 users down the track.   

Me thinks you take me a little too literally. 

No engine, not deigned for aircraft, can be bolted into an airframe without modifications.

"There is no gearbox that can be used in an aircraft" - What!!! Where have you been hiding - WW2 had geared aircraft engines, Continental & Rotax all come to mind. Subaru adaptions drive through a G box.

Again - liquid cooled aircraft engines have been around for ever - Rotax is the most common/ recent example

On my way home his arvo (acquiring chain saw parts is specifically allowed under NSW Lockdown) I chanced to be behind a small truck pulling a large boat. Said boat was fitted with an outboard motor of the Yamaha breed. - specifically a 300V6 4.2L purporting to deliver 5000-6000 RPM & ??HP (weirdly performance doesn't seem to feature on their web site). Anyhow I am impressed by the compactness of the engine/gearbox/etc  and I got to wondering, could such an engine be adapted to an aircraft? After all the Max RPM (presumably sustainable) is very much in the Rotax type range.

So the Q is has an outboard engine ever been adapted to fit an aircraft?

If yes - what type of engine/aircraft

Was it a success/failure?

If not ever done  -why not?

On my way home his arvo (acquiring chain saw parts is specifically allowed under NSW Lockdown) I chanced to be behind a small truck pulling a large boat. Said boat was fitted with an outboard motor of the Yamaha breed. - specifically a 300V6 4.2L purporting to deliver 5000-6000 RPM & ??HP (weirdly performance doesn't seem to feature on their web site). Anyhow I am impressed by the compactness of the engine/gearbox/etc I got to wondering, could such an engine be adapted to an aircraft. After all the Max RPM (presumably sustainable) is very much in the Rotax type range.

So the Q is has an outboard engine ever been adapted to fit an aircraft?

If yes - what type of engine/aircraft

Was it a success/failure?

If not ever done  -why nit?

5 hours ago, Flightrite said:

The Victorian lunatic/s keep on rolling on whilst their income also keeps rolling on, their BS & tyranny has destroyed the hopes & dreams of many!

The real cost of their criminal activities won't be known for a long time as people crumble under their dictatorship! Lockdowns don't work they just divide the nation & turn people against each other!

As for flying during lockdown? Did it last time during the extended jail term & will again this term!

So Flightright - I see you gave me a Caution notice. Fair enough. You got a better explanation for how CV19 was allowed to get away from Sydney and then be exported to most States and into the NSW hinterland.

Eugenics was at the core of the Nazi creed and went hand in glove with racism & anti-Semitism.

Pre WW2 this was a World wide movement. Even the Pope was a sympathiser.

This goes some way to explain the reluctance of the political/ruling classes of the Western World to "move" against the Nazi state. 

Even after war was declared and the existence of concentration/death camps, slave labour and genocide well known by the "upper echelons" little was done to hinder these activates.

They used to use all sorts of "stuff" to control parasites in animals. For the antivaxxers consideration, may I suggest;

Copper Sulphate

Flowers of Sulpha

Strychnine

Arsenic

Many others just as nasty

Applications both rectal & oral might be attempted

Not one for conspiracy theories - I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that the opposition to the Zero Community Transmission of CV19 is likely to be a plot.

If its not, why has NSW (with Scomo support) been setting us (all of Australia) up for failure in containing the virus ??

Just think about this for a moment:

We were one of the few nations on Earth that successful achieved Zero Community Transmission EVEN WHEN WE WERE ONLT TRYING FOR  "FLATTEN THE CURVE" (the origination conservative philosophy).

Oh you say! that was with the Alpha (less transmittable strain). True! however we were completely naive in our response to that variant and with much bumbling/stumbling still managed to get to 0 Community Transmission.

Then we had the single infected person (the Limo Driver/Delta,an incident in itself that brings into question Gov responsibility) What do we do? Basically took a week or two off, made a few cosmetic sort of ho hum response, if you like you can stay at home & wear a mask, that is if its not too much trouble - DESTINED FOR FAILURE!!!

Where are we now ? - NSW has pretty much put all of Australia at risk due to its continued (12 weeks ?) inept management of the outbreak. I used to think it was just incompetence in our leadership. Not so sure now.

Who will benefit from letting the virus rip and promoting vaccination over quarantined ??

"Follow the money" I say.

I would speculate, those large industries who would still be impacted by a CV19 free Australia (national boarders locked or restricted) - tourism ?  education ?. international sport (a bigy)? pharmaceutical  companies ?....... ??????

I believe we were (past tense) more than capable of bringing Delta to Zero Community Transmission - we just didn't try hard/fast/appropriately enough.

The naysayers will shout IMPOSSIBLE! there will always be outbreak's . True ! - no quarantine system is 100% full proof/perfect - so you implement fast response quarantine personnel & systems (just like a bush fire/train wreck/whatever) that automatically deploy  to contain the future Limo Driver & his close contacts, within a significant geographic "buffer zone". The  10-14 days (could be as few as 3 days) lockdown, impacted a relatively small geographic area/ population for a short time with minimal economic/social distress.

One positive in this debacle: We were always going to need to try for herd immunity and the failures of Delta outbreak control have certainly galvanised the population to do the right (jab) thing.

However it is clear now , that the jab alone, will not free us;

From Delta or future strains

Lockdowns

Booster shots and possibly new vaccines to address a changing virus (big big $$$ for the pharmaceutical Co)

Increased illness, death rate, long term disability - all of which will have a significant social & economic impact

On 30/08/2021 at 2:39 PM, KRviator said:

So what if we have? The whole "Zero Covid" mentality is a crock of shit. It's unsustainable, uneconomical and unethical. The goal was to Flatten the curve. We did that. We tolerated lockdowns to do that. No one agreed to Zero-Covid, and the whole "Let's blame NSW for our states cases" is disingenious and only highlights their own unrealistic expectations compared to Covid reality. Look at any other highly vaccinated jurisdiction in the world. Any other jurisdiction...And look at their case numbers then convert them to a percentage of our population and see what you get - I'll give you a hint, it ain't Zero! Or even close to it...

 

I went flying last week and make no apologies for it. I have an exemption from Qld to fly up there to check out a plane for sale, and that's fine so long as I don't leave the airport, then fly direct back to NSW.

True we started with the "Flatten The Curve" concept because we were looking at the overseas situation (where CV rapidly got away from the slow moving authorities) . We found through luck & experience, because we are an island  and can successfully close our boarders, Zero Community Spread was/is achievable.

You would have us not take advantage of our island state AND small population.

We should certainly learn from the overseas CV situation BUT not slavishly follow their example, ignoring our unique situation.

We can & should do it better - we will have less economic/human/social cost in the long run.

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Your life may not, but your mental health will……look to related suicide figures, too.

So you would risk your life to be a little  less anxious, today & "down the tack".

In other times, I would to say "your choice" and fight for your right to risk your own life. Not today or the foreseeable future, when your choice might mean my life or a member of my family, friends, community. That's what a pandemic does - it limits the freedom to choose, move about without precautions,  travel,  have the illusion of free will.

3 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

I'm all for compliance with the science (and with the ones saddled with setting the rules) but to me, such strict interpretations of "proper quarantine"  just give ammunition to those who think it's all ridiculous and would pressure the pollies to give it away altogether.

 

Let's say you live in regional NSW near where your aircraft's kept and you go up alone to fly circuits to keep your skills sharp; how is that "exporting our germs" when driving into town to stock up at Woolies - rule wise - isn't, so much? 

 

 

Proper quarantine, would have had a high probability of resolving this outbreak within 10 days -2 weeks - minimal disruption to society & the econamy (& your flying).

What is NSW in now , the twelfth weeks of confusion? Virus spread Nationally (except WA & Tasmania?) - something to be proud of??

We elect/pay the polies to make the hard decision, not be frightened of a few antivaxxers' , conspiracy theorists  - why would you vote for the wishy washy crap we have been served.

Fake quarantine (what we have been practising) has resulted in massive economic & social cost. You choose the soft approach you gets the disastrous result. 

If the jobs worth doing, do it properly  the first time.

One of the biggest problems with the Scomo/Gladys approach, is their utter failure to:

• Implement swift & appropriate quarantine
• To communicate effectively, even the fake quarantine rules, so that everyone knows, it is their individual responsibility to maintain quarantine. The attitude that we can all decide our individual circumstance (Gladys tried that with Bondi & failed) is not & never will be, compatible with a quarantine situation.

You have to eat, your life depends on it  - ideally you would have your food delivered minimising your exposure, the potential to become infected or infect others,.

Your life does not depend on you flying or making pathetic excuses to service your aircraft or  a host of other quarantine braking activities

8 hours ago, turboplanner said:

 

Your Rock had the gearbox for startability and gradability with the horse float but you must have had Jesus with you in terms of braking and suspension capacity.

 

 

Bought new in 1985. Not only pulled the horse float, survived teaching two sons to drive and multiple holiday trips.

Daily commuter for 28 years - never let me down.

Had 520,000 km when T boned. Still havent quite got her back together.

Cast iron transmission cases, cast iron engine (other than crank shaft seals never worked on), indirect injection (pretty much burn anything).

Lovely smooth short shifting gear box. HD cable actuated clutch, light & simple.

Pull started a tractor once, low range, barely knew it was there.

New HD shocks all round every 100,000 km. If you didn't do this handling quickly degraded and tyre "shoulder" wear increased markedly.

Religiously serviced every 5000 km.

Despite big front disk brakes and generous rear drums - terrible braking from new - tried everything, short of complete replacement, still poor but you drive accordingly.

Cart springs all round, other than replacement bushes, trouble free.

Hitch  point almost in line with rear cart spring hangers, so trailer tow bar weight ,made only small difference to car "geometry". 

When towing at a 110 kph you dont want to make any sudden changes in direction, when towing more than the tugs weight.

Except when towing, fuel consumption hardly varied from 10L/100 km no matter how you drove it.

West of Parks, big rains/flooding, idiot Police directed us through the road block. because we were in a 4X4 - water "popped" all the floor pan blanking grommets, 1/2 filled the headlamps - couple of times trucks/wash coming the other way, almost pushed us  of the road, veeery scary.  When we got home, took  carpets, seats out, checked transmission for water (none) and days and days to dry her out

The only electronics were the radio - bugger all to go wrong.

11 minutes ago, KRviator said:

@turboplanner at least put a reference on that so you can A) prove it's true and not just someone's opinion, and B) Know what state you're referring to, because in NSW you can fly for training in NSW as it is deemed "Education that cannot be done from home". Service NSW has confirmed that.

Well that's just one more completely idiotic ruling, to support my opinion that we dont have and have never had a proper quarantine lockdown in NSW - is it any wonder that we have been exporting our germs to the rest of the country?

Jackc - Great idea ! Just one teeny little problem - there are not enough health worker to staff the existing facilities, let alone additional pop up treatment centres.

The view that is suggested - OK to break quarantine because I am not coming into contact with anyone else - is just total BS - Think about the example you are setting. The more that think like this, the less likely quarantine measures will succeed. 

The dumb polies have lead the way on this, by making so many exemptions, for a host of activates, the rich & famous and our sporting "hero's" - but you can make a personal decision (or not) to do the right thing.

I live under the "training area" for Bankston/Camden/The Oaks - small aircraft activity is way down but I am ashamed of those few pilots still buzzing around - you cant display your contempt for quarantine much more publicly, than  by doing aeros over the lockdown population below. Total FW's!

On 28/08/2021 at 3:31 PM, turboplanner said:

 

.................................................

As OK mentioned, we can still get a full car range from the Japanese, but there are gaps in the market. Tradies, and people towing the recreational equipment want to two 3 to 4 tonnes and still maintain as close to 100 km/hr as they can. Some have bought imported Dodge Rams or F150s but these are really too light for the applications and there are hours of sub stories about vehicles which failed. These all have to be converted to RHD here in Australia for around $75,000.00 so only the rich can afford them. Trucks are a lower cost alternative but you have to go up to big five tonners to get an engine powerful enough to tow the weight at cruise speed. So there is a gap which could be filled by something like F350 built in the US for peanuts if we changed to LHD. .....................................................

 

Well Turbs me old mate... Yes there is the "look at me crowd" who want a  a big flashy US derived tug and then there are the majority of recreational people who only tow  2  - 3 tonne. For nearly 30 years or so, I pulled a double horse float, with 2  x 16hh lumps of geegee on board (say 2 + tonne all up ), with a Daihatsu Rocky 2.8 turbo diesel, 5 speed. Good for 110 kph (maxed out) on the freeway, bit slow on the longer, steeper hills but got there. Never a problem - great little truck.

Would still be driving Rocky, unfortunately  "T boned" by a nice young lad, on his mobile, coming out of a private drive. Now drive a Ford Ranger, 3.2 turbo diesel, 6 speed manual - slightly better fuel econamy than the Rocky and have upgraded to a larger horse float, we are now easily in the 2.5 tonne bracket and its way way easier to get done for speeding.

The tradies & a few recreators, who want bigger pay load , mainly go for the small Japanese trucks and many of them can easily sit on 110 kph . If they have a US ute, its for driving round (without a load) to "big note" themselves.

Another point  Rams, in RHD, were/are made that way in Mexico - not conversions, as erlier imports were. The 6.7 turbo diesel with up to 9 tonne towing capacity (overseas) was the pick. Not sure if this is still coming into Au. What I dont get is that the manual variants are not available here but then that skill is slowly being lost anyhow.