Aircraft Painters

[BirdDog]

Hello all.  
 

I have an RV7 that I’m considering getting a new paint job.  
 

I have no idea who even offers this service. 
 

Any ideas are welcomed. 
 

cheers

John 

[sfGnome]

After painting the inside myself and deciding that was a bad idea, I went to a couple of spray painters with truck-sized booths to do the outside. I’ve heard some bad stories about people having to remove the tail and undercarriage to fit their aircraft into a car paint booth. I imagine though that, even with the enormous booth of the bloke I used, it wouldn’t have fitted with wings on. 

[skippydiesel]

Hi BirdDog,

 

Cautionary tail;

 

I refurbished my first aircraft In/Out including painting. I did the research and settled on a US company called Stewart Systems (https://stewartsystems.aero/).  There were several reasons;

• Great reviews & videos
• Water born - less toxic
• Terrific how to instructions
• Certified for aircraft use

Down side - costly!

 

Perhaps unusual for me (a male) I actually followed the very detailed instructions.  I was delighted with the result. To my eye, pretty close to a professional finish.

 

I replaced the above, composite, aircraft with an almost completed all metal Sonex.

The almost completed description, included most of the aircraft being undercoated. ( PPG Industries DeSoto 515X349).

Over the next 12 months the remaining fabrication, installation was completed, in the period just after CV19 pandemic- time to do the topcoat paint.

After my first aircraft painting success I was going to do the job myself.

The paint I wanted was not available anywhere in Australia - next delivery ??????? 

My eldest Son (a CPL) persuaded me to engage the services of friend, who has a custom automotive paint business, has his own temperature controlled, down draft, spray booth (Mates Rates!)

With no paint from the prefered supplier I went to the Mate - he directed me to his supplier, PPG.

Trotted down to the local PPG stockist "Paint Powerhouse". After consulting with them, I went with PPG Industries Protec White.

The Mate did a great job. Sonex looked a million dollars.

Now, about 3 years later - Top & undercoat  is lifting in neat little circles off rivet heads. Top coat is flaking, in other areas, leaving the undercoat. Sonex is starting to look a little rough.

PPG refuse to inspect the work (I have to engage an independent paint assessor $$$) but have hinted that ;

• The bulk of the surface preparation, for the undercoat, was correctly applied, the rivets heads were likly not.
• The time between undercut & top coat applications was excessive (years) which would have required more intensive preparation (abrasion) than may have been done.
• PPG Industries Protec White is not listed as a suitable top coat over PPG Industries DeSoto 515X349.
• I should have been directed to their Aircraft paint division (didn't know they had one)

The only long term solution is a complete bear metal paint strip & repaint from scratch. As an amature, I think I would likly have done a more in depth surface preparation, than the professional, who likly made some understandable assumptions. My top coat application may not have been so professional but could not have been worse than what I have now. A cheap job, that will be a costly one to fix.

 

None of this effects the aircrafts excellent performance but is a bit cringeworthy at a fly-in.

 

If you happen to fly into Wedderburn/Napper Field - check out Peter (Overalls) RV4 - The first (?) in Australia, still in its originality paint job - looks new.

 

So my advice - DO YOUR RESEARCH - TAKE YOUR TIME - CHECK OUT EXAMPLES OF YOUR PAINTER SHORT LIST

😈

 

 

[facthunter]

You want the Least paint possible. It adds weight and it chips where movement and flexing Occur. Thick Paint on fabric cracks with the vibration and can crack the fabric also. Paint stripper can get in the Laps and cause Corrosion.  A crook coat of paint is hard to rectify.. Nev

[BirdDog]

Thanks lads.

It already has a crook coat of paint lol!  The aircraft's clear coat is actually tinted with a candy, and is coming off in places, and the overall finish is poor.  (Think not shiny).  
 

It is not something that MUST be done, but if I get the right opportunity to have it fixed, I would do so.  I would NOT attempt to do it myself.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, BirdDog said:

Thanks lads.

It already has a crook coat of paint lol!  The aircraft's clear coat is actually tinted with a candy, and is coming off in places, and the overall finish is poor.  (Think not shiny).  
 

It is not something that MUST be done, but if I get the right opportunity to have it fixed, I would do so.  I would NOT attempt to do it myself.

I hope you are saving well -  if contracting the job out, you will need bucket loads of cash .

 

If you can find a friend with panting skills (& equipment), to lead the project, with you as labourer (under intsruction), you cold save a lot of$$$.

 

Paint removal, surface preparation (grunt labour) is where  most of the dollars are spent, followed by cost of materials.

 

The act of painting (skill) takes very little time.

 

😈

[rodgerc]

I have used a professional aircraft surface finisher on a couple of my builds, and others on which I have assisted. He now works as a paint specialist for Boeing’s defence business and no longer able to assist with my projects. 

I once asked him how the training of aviation painters differed from automotive and the advice was that aviation was much more focused on surface preparation. 

His practice was to follow a regime of (very) light abrasion, solvent cleaning, acid etching and chromate conversion coating, prior to 2-pack epoxy priming. 
 

On my last personal aircraft, he wasn’t able to undertake the acid/chromate processes, so I did the preliminaries using Pantheon Prekote, as it was much less hazardous.
 

It seems to have been effective. 

[facthunter]

Preparation is everything with Aircraft Painting. Some common Paint strippers are a complete NO NO with Aluminium and it's alloys and Alclad. There are recognised and approved surface treatment chemicals like Alumiprep. The overlaps are your main worry, where the corrosion maybe hidden and inaccessible. Bonding would alleviate that, and make it much stronger at the same time. THICK paint chips easier and adds weight. Acrylic Lacquer can be blended in and is great for repairs or touch ups..   You can work over sections at your leasure. Just have a good Match.. Any Enamel is not suitable.  If you care at all for your Plane have it Hangared.  After it been near salt. wash it thorourly with decent water and Maybe Polish it. Nev

[BlurE]

I've seen this RV7A up close and the paint work is exceptional.

https://www.ultimateaero.com.au/post/rv7-paintwork

 

You just need decide if this sort of investment makse sense. I'm sure it's a $ubstantial one. 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, BlurE said:

I've seen this RV7A up close and the paint work is exceptional.

https://www.ultimateaero.com.au/post/rv7-paintwork

 

You just need decide if this sort of investment makse sense. I'm sure it's a $ubstantial one. 

 

 

How long ago was the job done.

 

Time  is the true test of how good the paint job is. If it still looks great in 3-5 years , its an okay jobe, of still good in 10 its a great job.

 

😈

 

 

 

 

[Cyrano]

If you have seen the Temora Museum Vampire, I recall the paint job was done by a company in Cowra.

The quality is outstanding.

[skippydiesel]

44 minutes ago, Cyrano said:

If you have seen the Temora Museum Vampire, I recall the paint job was done by a company in Cowra.

The quality is outstanding.

Does the Vampire fly? If not , the quality/durability of the paint job may not be applicable to an "active" aircraft.😈

 

[T510]

Is there any requirement for specialized aircraft painters for VH reg aircraft?

[skippydiesel]

16 minutes ago, T510 said:

Is there any requirement for specialized aircraft painters for VH reg aircraft?

My guess - If its a Certified aircraft the unswear would be YES. If experimental - probably not.

😈

[facthunter]

What value is a Guess. particularly around aircraft? A poor Paint strip job could do a lot of damage to an  aircraft.. Lots of Primer filler is contra indicated. New Shiny Paint job. What is it hiding?. The thinner the coat the better and Preparation is everything.. Don't, blame the paint if your preparation is Poor. No dust, Paint blobs, water drops, Paint runs. or flies either. .Nev

[Alan]

I have a Jab 230 (2006) always hangared, that has a factory paint finish that has small pimples wherever they used a fairing compound.   I have experience through work in studying the weathering durability of aircraft composite materials and this is a new one on me.  It looks to me like (not verifed) the fairing compound was not properly mixed (and catalysed) so after mixing it left unreacted monomer in the fairing (micro-balloons filler?) compound and this has outgassed causing the pimples.  

This is not a real problem and only a minor cosmetic issue to me.  It  is stable and does not affect the safety or perfomance.  But I would be interested in hearing if anybody has an issue such as this.

Repaint?  I think the horrors of stripping off the current finish would not be worth it, but would be interested in hearing any comments from experienced composite material painters.

 

Regs  Alan

[danny_galaga]

Where are you situated? Ultimate Aero in Boonah have a fully equipped spray booth etc 

[Alan]

Far North Queensland - Innisfail.  A Great place to test Composite weatherin problems 😁.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Alan said:

I It looks to me like (not verifed) the fairing compound was not properly mixed (and catalysed) so after mixing it left unreacted monomer in the fairing (micro-balloons filler?) compound and this has outgassed causing the pimples.  

 

May also be moisture - My glass wheel fairings get "pimples" every summer. Its annoying but, in my book, not worth worrying about . 😈

[Alan]

Agreed the moisture factor counts.  The pimples are formed by Osmotic pressure as any water migrates through the paint into any water solubles; I think in this case unreacted monomer is partially soluble.  The effect is local to areas where I think fairing compoud has been used.  Innisfail is a very high humidity area which is why we have the lab here.

 

Regs Alan 

[BirdDog]

Yep!  I am hearing everyone - repainting the entire aircraft  is huge hassle.   I am still researching it - no rush!