Manifold Pressure

[onetrack]

A damaged, sulphated battery with low voltage can damage an alternator. The alternator will run at maximum output continuously, trying to recharge the battery, which is in effect, shorting out the alternator output.

The alternator will overheat, and more than likely suffer from damaged stator windings, or suffer from damaged rectifier diodes, or suffer voltage regulator damage.

New replacement alternators often come with a warning to ensure your battery is in good condition, otherwise the alternator warranty may be voided.

[Moneybox]

There's no way of telling if the generator/alternator ever worked since I got the plane. It hasn't been used enough to tell and the generator light operates as if it's charging.

[onetrack]

Quote

I bought the battery new so about a year old but until completely flattened over several days it remained fully charged. It recharged fully after that so I'm hopeful the battery is ok. It may even improve with constant use.

I've had near-new batteries that were flattened to a very low voltage, and which showed full charge after extended charging - but they would not sustain substantial starter cranking effort - in effect, they were stuffed from being totally drained, and they showed all the signs of being sulphated.

 

However, the AGM batteries are recognised as being much more capable of handling deep discharge, than the regular flooded cell batteries. But a battery load test is the best way to tell a batterys health.

[Moneybox]

24 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I've had near-new batteries that were flattened to a very low voltage, and which showed full charge after extended charging - but they would not sustain substantial starter cranking effort - in effect, they were stuffed from being totally drained, and they showed all the signs of being sulphated.

 

However, the AGM batteries are recognised as being much more capable of handling deep discharge, than the regular flooded cell batteries. But a battery load test is the best way to tell a batterys health.

I can carry out a load test once charged however that is not going to fix the alternator/charging problem. I have no doubt the battery may have lost some of its ability to supply a full discharge however it did fully charge after it was flattened.

 

After I'd left the master on and found the battery flat it was fully charged. I left it at the door of Northam Air Services with a note requesting to have it charged. I picked it up a month or so later and it cranked the engine as if fully charged, not the sign of a stuffed battery.

Edited yesterday at 01:49 PM by Moneybox

[skippydiesel]

I assume your aircraft is fitted with the usual Rotax (Ducati) VR - if so it may be worth checking it out.

 

The Rotax Owners Forum is full of discussion on this topic however you may find the following helpful;

 

https://pointsforpilots.blogspot.com/2012/12/testing-rotax-912914-generator-and.html

 

😈

[Moneybox]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I assume your aircraft is fitted with the usual Rotax (Ducati) VR - if so it may be worth checking it out.

 

The Rotax Owners Forum is full of discussion on this topic however you may find the following helpful;

 

https://pointsforpilots.blogspot.com/2012/12/testing-rotax-912914-generator-and.html

 

😈

 

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I assume your aircraft is fitted with the usual Rotax (Ducati) VR - if so it may be worth checking it out.

 

The Rotax Owners Forum is full of discussion on this topic however you may find the following helpful;

 

https://pointsforpilots.blogspot.com/2012/12/testing-rotax-912914-generator-and.html

 

😈

Great article Skippy. That capacitor looks like a must-fit item because the rectifier certainly has a short life expectancy. Blueadventures suggested I might keep a spare rectifier so I'll order one right away and after a few checks most likely fit the new one anyway. If I'm to keep a spare it can be a used one if it still operates. If I had a 19 rego I'd be fitting one of the aftermarket options, preferably something not made in Europe.

[Moneybox]

Ok guys, your attempt to assist has been helpful although you caused me way too much stress for a Sunday morning.

 

I followed the instructions, resistance in the stator was fine at 0.1 ohms and the wiring and terminals look good. The battery charged up nicely, I forgot to give it a load test before installing it but I'm not concerned about the condition of the battery.

 

All went well until I couldn't get any AC voltage from the alternator. I even tried willing it to work because I really don't want to start digging into the back of the Rotax. Eventually I worked out I had to press a Select switch on the multimeter to change from DC to AC and my blood pressure dropped about the same as the voltage came up. I got 19v at a high idle and 22v at 3000rpm so now I'm happy. 🙃

 

Now I just need to buy a regulator/rectifier and a capacitor. It looks like the Rotax rectifier is going to come in at something over $300 plus the capacitor and is known to be unreliable. Then I have to option of fitting one of a Japanese machine, most likely made in China but likely to last a lifetime for $50. What a tough decision?

[Blueadventures]

31 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

Ok guys, your attempt to assist has been helpful although you caused me way too much stress for a Sunday morning.

 

I followed the instructions, resistance in the stator was fine at 0.1 ohms and the wiring and terminals look good. The battery charged up nicely, I forgot to give it a load test before installing it but I'm not concerned about the condition of the battery.

 

All went well until I couldn't get any AC voltage from the alternator. I even tried willing it to work because I really don't want to start digging into the back of the Rotax. Eventually I worked out I had to press a Select switch on the multimeter to change from DC to AC and my blood pressure dropped about the same as the voltage came up. I got 19v at a high idle and 22v at 3000rpm so now I'm happy. 🙃

 

Now I just need to buy a regulator/rectifier and a capacitor. It looks like the Rotax rectifier is going to come in at something over $300 plus the capacitor and is known to be unreliable. Then I have to option of fitting one of a Japanese machine, most likely made in China but likely to last a lifetime for $50. What a tough decision?

Good news, just buy the Rotax one (it'll be plug and play, ensure earthing connection is good, I fit dedicated negative from reg / reg to battery, don't rely on air frame)  Yep the Rotax ones can be a bit sus but you want to be flying now; so sort an alternate one later if you want.

[Moneybox]

Now you can call me a tight-arse if you like but the Italian part is certainly not reliable.

 

 

Lets see what the Chinese can do. It should mount on the same screws and directly plug into the harness.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Moneybox

[Blueadventures]

27 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

Now you can call me a tight-arse if you like but the Italian part is certainly not reliable.

 

 

Lets see what the Chinese can do. It should mount on the same screws and directly plug into the harness.

 

Did you sort an answer to this question so you get a suitable one?  (Compatible Vehicles: Different motorcycles have different magneto output voltage, power, and other parameters. When ordering, you will need to select a voltage stabilizer that matches your model.)  Let us know how you get on.

[BurnieM]

I thought the go to was a MOSFET based reg/rec ?

 

[Blueadventures]

33 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

I thought the go to was a MOSFET based reg/rec ?

 

They are suitable and need slight alteration of wiring, Rotax part is plug and play with existing. The item mentioned is interesting and nice on pocket. The Carr115 looks good.

[BurnieM]

Is this the one - https://www.vectriqparts.com.au/product/rotax-voltage-regulator-carr5115/

 

Skippy ?

 

[BrendAn]

what happened to powermates.  i know they stopped making them. 

well made and reliable. probably couldn't compete with imports i suppose.

[Moneybox]

Sorry guys, visitors arrived and stayed all evening so time got away.

 

Description

report

New high quality products. Easy install and durable use. Great quality and great Fitment. Correct Connector No cutting or splicing. Give a sharper and more sophisiticated look for your car Applicable: for APRILIA 8112200, 8138004, 8212120, AP8112331 for BENELLI 51721400 for CAGIVA 037038500, 061546750, 080546458, 42901, 4851000, 54040011A, 800054017 for DEUTZ 04191201, 04191231EC for DUCATI 061046750, 061946750, 343520 for GILERA 316788 for LOMBARDINI 7362.018, 7362.022, 7362.027, 7362.040, 7362.056, 7362.66 Colour:silver Material:Metal Package Contents: 1x Rectifier Only the above package content, other products are not included. Note: Light reflection and different displays may cause the color of the item in the picture a little different from the real thing. The measurement allowed error is +/- 1-3cm.

 

Will it do the job? I don't know but it's stated to be suitable for several Ducati models. I'm not into bikes so I don't know one model from the next and I wouldn't have done this if the Rotax rectifier was a good product, it's obviously not. This is not a critical part so considering the price and ease of installation I think it's worth the test. I need to set up a method of monitoring battery voltage. A simple digital volt meter will do and I'd like to see something indicating the Master is switched on. The only indication I have at the moment is the sound of the Hobs meter ticking over.

 

I know there are a lot of previously tested rectifiers but all needed wiring modifications and all come at a price so close to the original part I may as well buy the original. Lets just see how it pans out.

[BurnieM]

I wouldn't.

 

Third party MOSFET based reg/recs have been around for motorcycles for 15-ish years and have a very good rep.

Ducati reg/recs never had a good reputation in the mc scene so I am surprised that Rotax ever used them.

It is part of a system with a difficult to replace stator (alternator).

 

Lets wait for Skippys feedback as he has been running a CAR5115 for a few hours now.

 

[onetrack]

In my experience, unless the electronic unit contains genuine Toshiba mosfets, you will not get satisfactory performance from it. Be aware there are plenty of Chinese-made mosfets that can't cut it when it comes to a decent workload.

 

There is a Japanese company called ShinDengen, who specialise in small regulators for motorcycles, amongst a range of other electronic products. They make a Ducati/Rotax replacement regulator. Unfortunately, you cannot deal directly with ShinDengan, they are purely a manufacturer and wholesaler. It appears they have contracts with some of the motorcycle companies.

 

I can find no reviews on ShinDengan regulators, and I can only get feedback from Ducati and Laverda motorcycle forums. They make two styles of regulator, a shunt-type regulator and a mosfet-type regulator.

 

This is the shunt-type regulator, for sale on eBay (AU) from a German seller. I reckon you could find it cheaper than buying from Germany. The ShinDengen P/No is SH673-12. The ShinDengen mosfet-type P/No is FH020AA.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152821133639

 

Now, the Chinese do many copies of the ShinDengen FH020AA - here's one, for just $18.09, on AliExpress. It says nothing about Toshiba mosfets, and I suspect you get exactly what you pay for, at $18.09.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/p/tesla-landing/index.html?scenario=c_ppc_item_bridge&productId=1005010318099135

 

You can acquire a similar Chinese regulator off eBay, which may or may not be the same as the one from AliExpress. But note, in the eBay listing below, how the seller claims they sell only "ShinDengan quality" in their marketing spiel.

They state their regulator is made in China - but then they have "5 yrs warranty" in one section of the listing, and "2 yrs warranty" in another, leading one to be suspicious of all their claims.

 

Pardon our interruption...

WWW.EBAY.COM.AU

 

The feedback I get, is nearly all the Chinese versions are all the cheap-ar$e variety, with epoxy potting mix on the rear of the Chinese regulator - but the genuine ShinDengan regulators have metal backs.

The Chinese seller above claims their regulator is superior quality, and has a metal back. The seller still says nothing about the origin of the mosfets in their unit.

 

 

 

[Moneybox]

56 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

I wouldn't.

 

Third party MOSFET based reg/recs have been around for motorcycles for 15-ish years and have a very good rep.

Ducati reg/recs never had a good reputation in the mc scene so I am surprised that Rotax ever used them.

It is part of a system with a difficult to replace stator (alternator).

 

Lets wait for Skippys feedback as he has been running a CAR5115 for a few hours now.

 

I spoke to Skippy today and so far he's quite happy. Yes Ducati have dodgy rectifiers however if what I read is correct there are problems with the solder joints that can be rectified if you wish to dig the resin out of the back side. My guess is the Chinese are better with a soldering iron than the Italians. They'll either have a 10 year old kid or a robot doing the job.