Wing Aviation Pty Ltd drones - coming soon to Melbourne

[Red]

Re: drones use in crop spraying, I know Japan and probably other countries have used large radio controlled helicopters in that role for decades, so Drone usage is certainly feasible.
Perhaps a matter of area involved v cost differential of manned aircraft V autonomous or remotely powered vehicles

[T510]

Safety of the pilots and efficiency come into it too.

 

Flying autonomously you can even spray at night. And if you do trowel one in its typically only an expense not a human life.

 

Crop dusting is a great application for unmanned aircraft. Removes the high risk to pilots and flight paths are down low away from most manned aircraft activities.

 

There are already companies out there converting manned aircraft into UAV's

 

 

[BrendAn]

On 24/07/2024 at 12:01 PM, spacesailor said:

As to the ' seed dropping drones ' .

Surly that is illegal ,  as in recreational aircraft are not allowed to drop lollies now .

spacesailor

I am sure there was something on the news a while back about drones dropping native seeds in NSW . 

[BrendAn]

On 25/07/2024 at 8:59 AM, T510 said:

Drone aerial sprayers are governed by the same rules as manned aircraft, the operator still needs to have the appropriate licences and permits for the chemicals they are spraying. If they don't they are at risk of litigation same as a manned aircraft

 

A single spray drone can spray up to 14Ha and hour, some you can fly in swarms of 5 drones to one operator, they are not just doing tiny areas.

 

The Aerial Application Association Of Australia hasn't released drone policy since 2021. Their policy said they did not see the use for drones in aerial application. This was a short sighted view when they could have had input in licencing and policies for drone spraying

I imagine that association is for ag pilots and they don't want to be giving work away.

[SGM]

ok, an update 

1. I double-check online at www.wing.com that I am in range.  It is owned by Google.
2. I go to DoorDash and see the drone icon for my address, so I order drone delivery of 2 Sushi (for my daughter), nominally in 20 mins via doordash.  It's 7km from the shop to my house, and today it's a 15kt headwind.
3. Sushi arrives in a very beat-up Camry about 1 hour later.
4. I end up paying more than I should for 2 pieces of Sushi - but hopefully my daughter is happy

Edited November 5 by SGM

[Student Pilot]

On 28/7/2024 at 12:26 PM, BrendAn said:

I imagine that association is for ag pilots and they don't want to be giving work away.

Drones have come a long way in the last few years but still can't compete broad acre application. A lot is claimed of drone productivity with all sorts of grand totals quoted. Most labeled (legal requirement) total volume spray application rates are way heavier than the figures that are quoted in application rates of drones. Normal aerial application rates are 30 to 40 litres total volume per hectare. The chemical is mixed with a carrier of water or oil, chem rates can be as little as ml/ha to 4 or 5 litres to the hectare with the rest of the volume made up of the carrier. A very expensive working drone load would be 40 litres. There are ones that carry more but are very very expensive. Most of the spray figures quoted are below the labelled total volume/hectare. 

[T510]

For $30k the new Agras T100 from DJI can carry 100L for spraying or 100kg for spreading and this is after they reduced the MTOW to fit in to CASA's weight categories.

 

It will spray 30-40L/min at a 10m spray width and runs terrain following radar for consistent height above the crops.

 

Once CASA changes the regulations I would expect to see sub 600kg ag drones start to become more common in Australia

 

 

[kgwilson]

This is the beginning of the end for aerial crop spraying and top dressing by manned aircraft & the main reasons are cost and accuracy. My neighbour in NZ had an airstrip on his farm where the Crescoes had to takeoff & land on a hill under some 22kVA power lines. I went up with the pilot once and was blown away by his skills. I'd sit on my veranda and watch him dropping load after load of super phosphate. Each trip was only about 3 minutes. It is a shame that we will see the end of this but technology & electrification will see its demise. 

[FlyBoy1960]

1 hour ago, T510 said:

Once CASA changes the regulations I would expect to see sub 600kg ag drones start to become more common in Australia

They are already here, provided you are flying over your own property and not doing for 3rd parties for payment or reward then it is already open slather.

 

 I was looking one in Kingaroy that was using propellers bigger than what is on a Tecnam. It ran off a gasoline motor that drove electric power units

[skippydiesel]

Speculation:

 

In agriculture, aircraft are only used when ground delivery is, for whatever reason, impractical. 

 

There are GPS guided ground units that can carry 7,500 + L. Obviously can operate with a high degree of accuracy, safety (even at night) at a fraction of the acquisition & operating cost of an aircraft.

 

Chopper delivery gas been found useful in some high value broad leave/dense canopy crops, where the downwash aids in chemical penetration.

 

As for forestry - many trees have very small light seeds, This combined with often inaccessible terrain, makes aerial distribution attractive.

 

As a general rule, farmers are extremely cost sensitive ie unlikly to indulge in a costly unproven exercise/technique, where high level of efficacy is uncertain😈

[T510]

23 hours ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

They are already here, provided you are flying over your own property and not doing for 3rd parties for payment or reward then it is already open slather.

 

 I was looking one in Kingaroy that was using propellers bigger than what is on a Tecnam. It ran off a gasoline motor that drove electric power units

You can fly up to 150kg MTOW with a Remote Pilot Licence (RePL) over your own property as long it is not for reward, anything over 150kg requires an experimental certificate and needs to be registered with CASA.

 

You can fly up to 25kg MTOW over your own land with no training or licence required

 

A 150kg mtow drone is huge, the T100 is 3.2m prop tip to tip and 1.8m with the props folded.

 

That said there are lots of operators using drones without any regards for licencing, registration or the regulations. It's a huge problem in the industry

 

[T510]

21 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Speculation:

 

In agriculture, aircraft are only used when ground delivery is, for whatever reason, impractical. 

 

There are GPS guided ground units that can carry 7,500 + L. Obviously can operate with a high degree of accuracy, safety (even at night) at a fraction of the acquisition & operating cost of an aircraft.

 

Chopper delivery gas been found useful in some high value broad leave/dense canopy crops, where the downwash aids in chemical penetration.

 

As for forestry - many trees have very small light seeds, This combined with often inaccessible terrain, makes aerial distribution attractive.

 

As a general rule, farmers are extremely cost sensitive ie unlikly to indulge in a costly unproven exercise/technique, where high level of efficacy is uncertain😈

We have around 6 drone ag companies already operating in Gippsland, anyone who thinks drones are not going to be competitive in Ag industries is delusional

 

They are even using drones for planting

Edited November 6 by T510

[BrendAn]

22 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Speculation:

 

In agriculture, aircraft are only used when ground delivery is, for whatever reason, impractical. 

 

There are GPS guided ground units that can carry 7,500 + L. Obviously can operate with a high degree of accuracy, safety (even at night) at a fraction of the acquisition & operating cost of an aircraft.

 

Chopper delivery gas been found useful in some high value broad leave/dense canopy crops, where the downwash aids in chemical penetration.

 

As for forestry - many trees have very small light seeds, This combined with often inaccessible terrain, makes aerial distribution attractive.

 

As a general rule, farmers are extremely cost sensitive ie unlikly to indulge in a costly unproven exercise/technique, where high level of efficacy is uncertain😈

Rubbish. Watch this space. Drones will be the future. Cost come down as volumes increase

[skippydiesel]

T510/BrendAn,

 

You are very quick to "Rubbish" my speculation but offer no actual evidence, to support your dogmatic assertions.

 

NOTE: I did not say aircraft will not be used, only that their use will be "when ground delivery is, for whatever reason, impractical"

 

The reality is quite simple - where high volume and or weight of product is a factor, aircraft can not compete economically with ground delivery UNLESS ground delivery impractical.

 

Factors; Terrain, ground moisture (wet), crop type, urgency/timeliness.

• Boom: 

  Available with front-mounted booms from 36 to 54 meters, providing a wide spray width. 

   

• Engine and performance: 

  A 370hp Cummins engine, 4WD hydrostatic transmission, and a top road speed of 50 km/h. 

• Tank and capacity: 

  9000-liter tank, designed for high-capacity spraying and increased productivity. 😈

   

Edited November 6 by skippydiesel

[T510]

Skip,

 

Your "speculation" provided no evidence at all. 

 

You speculated that a ground unit can operate at a fraction of the expense of an aircraft but do you have any idea as to the operating costs of a large spraying drone?

 

A 2 year old John Deere 616R sprayer will cost you over $1 million to purchase

 

There a plenty of successful Ag drone operators in Australia already but like manned Ag operations they will never be the only solution. 

 

Anyone who thinks drones don't have a place in agriculture is incredible short sighted.

 

Edited November 6 by T510

[facthunter]

Less "spray drift" with Ground equipment  especially when shrouded. If you don't watch where your spray goes you will be in court quick time. Contractors do this stuff. you don't own  the equipment unless you are BIG time. Nev

[Thruster88]

As someone in the farming game about 90% or more of crop farmers have their own ground sprayer, either self propelled or a tractor trailer unit. Drones also don't have to fly, small autonomous ground units are available right now, these can be very light weight and often use weed seeking camera technology for fallow spraying. 

[facthunter]

Wheeled equipment does Cause soil compaction but it's pretty effective generally and Aerial Dusting is extremely risky and expensive. Weed control often needs attention to some specific areas of Infestation on an individual basis. AGAIN spray drift IS important to your Neighbours. Some of this stuff is toxic and ruin things like fruit trees, for  miles away.  People have to live near many of these crops as well. Nev

[T510]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Less "spray drift" with Ground equipment  especially when shrouded. If you don't watch where your spray goes you will be in court quick time. Contractors do this stuff. you don't own  the equipment unless you are BIG time. Nev

Maybe historically contractors were used but now most have their own spray equipment. Both my neighbours on under 200 acres have their own spray rigs

 

 

[facthunter]

AS you say you can do it with quite unsophisticated gear and doing it yourself you "Know the Block" and where the Problems are. Nev

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

T510/BrendAn,

 

You are very quick to "Rubbish" my speculation but offer no actual evidence, to support your dogmatic assertions.

 

NOTE: I did not say aircraft will not be used, only that their use will be "when ground delivery is, for whatever reason, impractical"

 

The reality is quite simple - where high volume and or weight of product is a factor, aircraft can not compete economically with ground delivery UNLESS ground delivery impractical.

 

Factors; Terrain, ground moisture (wet), crop type, urgency/timeliness.

• Boom: 

  Available with front-mounted booms from 36 to 54 meters, providing a wide spray width. 

   

• Engine and performance: 

  A 370hp Cummins engine, 4WD hydrostatic transmission, and a top road speed of 50 km/h. 

• Tank and capacity: 

  9000-liter tank, designed for high-capacity spraying and increased productivity. 😈

   

Rubbish was probably the wrong word. I just think you are writing drones off without allowing for the technology advances. They will only get bigger and better.

[facthunter]

They'd be pretty good for Inspecting the Property. Nev

[Thruster88]

31 minutes ago, facthunter said:

They'd be pretty good for Inspecting the Property. Nev

True, or one could have a Thruster...

[FlyBoy1960]

6 hours ago, T510 said:

That said there are lots of operators using drones without any regards for licencing, registration or the regulations. It's a huge problem in the industry

This is the problem, there are dozens of sites in China where you can via a drone that can carry 500 L payload. These things are huge. Imported into Australia as farm equipment and provided you don't run into anyone then you are good to go. You claim ignorance if anyone ever starts knocking at the door saying you are a farmer, not a pilot and I don't need any bloody license for my tractor so why would I need one for this !

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

Rubbish was probably the wrong word. I just think you are writing drones off without allowing for the technology advances. They will only get bigger and better.

 

4 hours ago, T510 said:

Skip,

 

Your "speculation" provided no evidence at all. 

 

You speculated that a ground unit can operate at a fraction of the expense of an aircraft but do you have any idea as to the operating costs of a large spraying drone?

 

A 2 year old John Deere 616R sprayer will cost you over $1 million to purchase

 

There a plenty of successful Ag drone operators in Australia already but like manned Ag operations they will never be the only solution. 

 

Anyone who thinks drones don't have a place in agriculture is incredible short sighted.

 

Wow! Have I hit a nerve or something.

 

Talk about out of context supposed quotes, reading far more into what I actually said. (assuming you actually took the time to read, rather than have a "gut reaction")

 

Show me when/where  I said anything remotely like ".....writing drones off..." "......drones don't have a place in agriculture..."

 

If you read what I actually said - it was all about aerial application. Thats ALL aerial application systems V ground.

 

Since you have chosen to focus on drones;

 

I have no doubt that the use of drones, in almost all agricultural industries is but in its infancy ie will grow over time.

 

Currently aerial drones are cost effective systems for aerial inspecting (including- photography, mapping, infrared, pest assessments, crop fertilizer response, etc) delivery of light weight packages eg tree seeds - much more than this I don't know of.

Right now & for the immediate future aerial drones do not yet have the capacity of full size aircraft, which have their place but are also limited (mainly cost), compared with ground based systems,  as I have described.

 

If you include semi autonomous/robotic ground  machines, for such activates as cultivation, seeding, spraying and harvest - they already exist & have for a while (the spray rig pictured above uses GPS to guide itself for very accurate tracking & spay application, the operator is effectively a passenger (for much of the time) once the rig has been programed).

 

Robotic dairy's have been around for perhaps 15 years.

 

I could go on - hopefully you understand my position better now😈