Spitfire engine out. Safe landing. Lax maintenance to blame.

[onetrack]

Danny, over 60 years of fixing every type of machine and vehicle that has an engine or drivetrain, gives me memories of plenty of ventilated diff and gearbox housings.

 

The problem is, most gears run with very little clearance to the housings, and it only takes a stray piece of bearing that's failing, or some other component that has come adrift, to get caught between the gear and the housing, and KAPOW, there's your daylight peeking in!

[facthunter]

That's why Magnetic drain Plugs etc are Good. They won't pick up brass cages though.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

Lambourgini never set  any great records for reliability. Sharing lubricants makes things unnecessarily difficult. I think that GEARBOX IS separate. It appears to be sealed off. Gearbox cases have to be very strong. and it's probably East  West & FWD.  No bevel Gear.  Nev

Mid engine, behind the driver. V12. One casting doesn't automatically mean the gearbox shares the oil. It makes for a more compact and sturdy structure. Funny you mention reliability. Ferruccio Lamborghini had a successful tractor factory. Successful enough he bought a Ferrari. But it kept breaking down, so he asked his engineers if they could make something more reliable 😇

[facthunter]

Good story. Based on One car.? New  design Reliable?? Unlikely straight away unless based on something already pretty good. How Many Makers have been successful with F1 Engines and how much $$$$ spent.

  Second hand Values give a better idea, Most of these HONKY cars have faults and are costly/hard to  service.  Ferrari's are worth quite a lot generally.  Hanging a structure off the side of a Block doesn't seem a Neat way to do it and it's all going through a lot of gears to get to the axles. Mechanical Noise and energy Loss and loss of dimensions with temp Changes..  Not good  when just behind your seat back.. Most of them are Just Horrible to drive in Traffic anyhow.   Nev

[onetrack]

Danny, you forgot to mention that Enzo Ferrari insulted Lamborghini when he went to see the great man, and complained about the Ferrari clutch and transmission design.

Enzo is reported to have said to Ferruccio, "You are a tractor driver. You know nothing about racing cars. Stick to making tractors!"

 

This insult apparently drove Ferruccio to make his own high performance cars in competition with Ferrari. But the Lamborghini tractors were nothing special, anyway - and the earlier ones used Morris engines!

[BrendAn]

32 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Danny, you forgot to mention that Enzo Ferrari insulted Lamborghini when he went to see the great man, and complained about the Ferrari clutch and transmission design.

Enzo is reported to have said to Ferruccio, "You are a tractor driver. You know nothing about racing cars. Stick to making tractors!"

 

This insult apparently drove Ferruccio to make his own high performance cars in competition with Ferrari. But the Lamborghini tractors were nothing special, anyway - and the earlier ones used Morris engines!

and ford built the gt40 and blew the doors off ferrari. no substitute for cubic inches

[danny_galaga]

17 hours ago, facthunter said:

Good story. Based on One car.? New  design Reliable?? Unlikely straight away unless based on something already pretty good. How Many Makers have been successful with F1 Engines and how much $$$$ spent.

  Second hand Values give a better idea, Most of these HONKY cars have faults and are costly/hard to  service.  Ferrari's are worth quite a lot generally.  Hanging a structure off the side of a Block doesn't seem a Neat way to do it and it's all going through a lot of gears to get to the axles. Mechanical Noise and energy Loss and loss of dimensions with temp Changes..  Not good  when just behind your seat back.. Most of them are Just Horrible to drive in Traffic anyhow.   Nev

The Muira might be the second model. It's a beauty. The first I think was the 350 gtv , which wasn't nearly as elegant. I'm sure they learnt a lot building the first design. 

Sounds like you should design a sports car. You seem to know how it's done 😇

 

Highest price paid for a Muira. There was a low point with a lot of classic cars at one stage. I remember Nicholas Cage bought an ex Shah of Iran Muira for maybe $200,000 around 20 years ago. Anything from the Shah would have virtually no miles in it, so a good catch 🙂

 

https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/hagerty-insider/4-9m-lamborghini-is-the-most-expensive-miura-ever-sold/

Edited November 3 by danny_galaga

[facthunter]

Yes I have had a bit to do with engine development and racing and Knew a Lot of Car Distributers at one time.  I still have connections with People who specialise in that Kind of thing. They are under no Illusions about some of the deficiencies in them.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

What are you waiting for? The best sports car the world has ever seen is locked up in your head! You'll be the most revered auto engineer in history and no one will ever be able to fault your wonderful chassis, body and engine design. And all of us here can one day say 'we knew that guy when he only talked about being the best designer in the world. Then one day he proved it, and there was no doubt. He really was the best engineer that ever was, and ever will be' 😇

[danny_galaga]

Introducing the "Neville' 😀

[facthunter]

ALL Piston engines are CRAP. They have had their day. Very funny danny. I now consider My involvement much as a waste of time but I DID DO It. I was NUTS about engines.  I still work on them .    Nev

[facthunter]

Few People Know How to these days. People in TAFE's etc would not have any Hands on experience to teach it. Engine reconditioning has all But disappeared. Near everything is CNC'd People also don't have a great understanding of Metallurgy,  Stress relieving heat treatment etc "Jobbing Machinist" would only Make "Coffee Money" as no one want's to pay for the Time skill and effort Required.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

20 hours ago, facthunter said:

Few People Know How to these days. People in TAFE's etc would not have any Hands on experience to teach it. Engine reconditioning has all But disappeared. Near everything is CNC'd People also don't have a great understanding of Metallurgy,  Stress relieving heat treatment etc "Jobbing Machinist" would only Make "Coffee Money" as no one want's to pay for the Time skill and effort Required.  Nev

That's great, but you realise my beautiful Lamborghini engine block is not the only engine to not be perfect, right? And, since Lamborghini produced that engine for 50 years with just incremental refinements, I think it can't have been too bad a design. Not bad for the first engine they ever built 🤷‍♂️

[facthunter]

Good on  you for Looking after it and having it survive. It has Historical significance . I don't restore Old stuff because it's Good/better or seek to modify it Unless it's ABSOLUTELY essential. Some of it has bloody awful engineering but that's Part of the Deal.  Use it within it's LIMITS and Keep it alive and functioning Modern stuff is really SO GOOD and cheap  compared to the older exotica If you want to be Practical.  Nev

[onetrack]

Nev, I think Danny was being somewhat literal when he said "my" Muira. The Muira block photo that Danny provided is from a Californian owner, and details his MAJOR engine reconditioning operations, which included quite a number of modifications to improve the original design.

 

Scotts Mura

WWW.MIURESSENCE.COM

 

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Nev, I think Danny was being somewhat literal when he said "my" Muira. The Muira block photo that Danny provided is from a Californian owner, and details his MAJOR engine reconditioning operations, which included quite a number of modifications to improve the original design.

 

Scotts Mura

WWW.MIURESSENCE.COM

 

That can't be right, nev says he's the only one left in the world that can restore and renovate engines 😄

 

[facthunter]

Thanks ot. Nev

[facthunter]

 Where did I say that  Danny? There's not much of that Block to Play around with. Big Money spent. Wide angle Two Valve head . Very dated design . Miller had that in the Late 20's. IF you want FACTS.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

17 hours ago, facthunter said:

 Where did I say that  Danny? There's not much of that Block to Play around with. Big Money spent. Wide angle Two Valve head . Very dated design . Miller had that in the Late 20's. IF you want FACTS.  Nev

It's a quad cam engine.

 

There was a short animation on Sesame Street when I was growing up. Two kids are drawing. The first kid draws the usual stick figure of a person. The second kid draws the Mona Lisa. The first kid says "her eyes are too close together".

Edited November 4 by danny_galaga

[facthunter]

Read what I said Carefully, before slinging Muck. I said it was a Wide angle 2 TWO valve head. Just like the Miller I referred to. Built about 50 years earlier. I'll take an apology anytime. You too skippy. Nev

[danny_galaga]

28 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Read what I said Carefully, before slinging Muck. I said it was a Wide angle 2 TWO valve head. Just like the Miller I referred to. Built about 50 years earlier. I'll take an apology anytime. You too skippy. Nev

You still seem to be saying it's eyes are too close together, so I guess you just don't get it 🤷‍♂️

[facthunter]

You are Making no sense at all. Wasting my time.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

You are Making no sense at all. Wasting my time.  Nev

Skippy gets it. Relax, we can still be friends. I just know that whatever we talk about, to expect that you will know exactly what's wrong with the thing, and that you wouldn't do it that way, and get the hell offa my lawn! 

 

I'm just glad you weren't on the NASA team in the sixties, because the commies would have put a man on Mars before NASA even got a chimp into space 😄

[facthunter]

You don't read what I say  carefully and when I call your attention to it you start hurling Insults. It doesn't make this Forum a nice place to be and suitable for discussing things in depth.. Nev

[danny_galaga]

40 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You don't read what I say  carefully and when I call your attention to it you start hurling Insults. It doesn't make this Forum a nice place to be and suitable for discussing things in depth.. Nev

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings but you think it's nice to constantly hear how something isn't great in your view, even though that's not part of the discussion? Do you not like ANYTHING in the world, even though realistically nothing can be perfect? Can you not just sit back appreciate something, warts and all? It's quite tiring. 

I mean, this all started on a thread about an emergency landing of a Spitfire, but then you felt you had to tell everyone what a crappy engine it has blah blah blah. The engine out wasn't because it has a crappy engine, but because of a lack of maintenance, particularly of the fuel pump.  I think every thread that involves engines you've got to point out why you would have designed it better, and they must have all been dolts, what were they thinking etc etc. 

Maybe you could start a thread on all major engines ever designed, and explain how you would have done it better. Start with the Merlin 😇