China is sorting out their supply chain

[danny_galaga]

Fighter sized drone, almost certainly supersonic 

 

https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-unveils-large-unmanned-stealth-fighter-design-during-military-parade

[onetrack]

Or a decent mock-up, with nothing actually flying yet? Military parades in countries led by dictators are notorious for holding military equipment displays with equipment that is largely fake, or non-operational.

[Litespeed]

True it could be a mock up fake ala putan.

 

But I think given the massive resources and millions of engineers they have access to, it would be very close to a viable aircraft.

 

Scary stuff

[onetrack]

Don't worry, if Chinese tractors and construction equipment and cars are any indicators, the drone will have major flaws - peasants will have done the assembly - resulting in missing parts, connectors left unconnected, and bolts left loose - the castings will still have casting sand attached, the QC papers will be forged or acquired via bribery, and the item will have been rushed into production with inadequate testing. But they will build 500 of them every day, that's the main concern.

[danny_galaga]

12 hours ago, onetrack said:

Don't worry, if Chinese tractors and construction equipment and cars are any indicators, the drone will have major flaws - peasants will have done the assembly - resulting in missing parts, connectors left unconnected, and bolts left loose - the castings will still have casting sand attached, the QC papers will be forged or acquired via bribery, and the item will have been rushed into production with inadequate testing. But they will build 500 of them every day, that's the main concern.

So don't worry? Or do worry?.which is it?

[Methusala]

Anyone actually been to China? Should try the bullet trains. 320kmh and on time to the minute

If you really don't know then best to find out some facts beforehand. 

[BurnieM]

Yes, I have been to China and ridden on a bullet train.

 

Also stayed in a 5 year old 20 story hotel that had major plumbing problems (leaks inside the walls) and needed to be pulled down.

Custom king sized beds and decor was great. Structural integrity not so much.

 

China will get there but there is still way too much 'copying' of western goods without really understanding what needs to go into them.

 

Edited yesterday at 02:31 AM by BurnieM

[BurnieM]

PS

How are those Rotax clones going ?

and

why do they not understand they need to prove them in a western (read transparent) environment ?

 

 

[danny_galaga]

6 hours ago, BurnieM said:

Yes, I have been to China and ridden on a bullet train.

 

Also stayed in a 5 year old 20 story hotel that had major plumbing problems (leaks inside the walls) and needed to be pulled down.

Custom king sized beds and decor was great. Structural integrity not so much.

 

China will get there but there is still way too much 'copying' of western goods without really understanding what needs to go into them.

 

Being a postie, I get to see the trials and tribulations of a lot of new buildings, right here in Brisbane. I can tell you that a lot of apartments after five years may as well be pulled down...

[onetrack]

Well, a new Childrens Hospital was built here in Perth a few years ago, and almost immediately, excessive levels of lead were found in the water from the piping in the hospital. The lead was traced to brass pipe fittings that contained unacceptable levels of lead. Guess where the pipe fittings came from?

 

In addition, roof panels were fitted to the Hospital, that were later found to be tainted with asbestos. Guess where those panels came from? And guess who produced documentation stating that their panels were free of asbestos, prior to supply? It's a constant problem from that big manufacturing country to our North. 

 

Try buying a new Chinese generating set, and see if you can get it to reliably produce its factory claimed output. Good luck with that.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-27/perth-childrens-hospital-cleared-for-opening-after-lead-problem/9591812

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-14/asbestos-found-in-perth-childrens-hospital-roof-panels/7628108

 

[skippydiesel]

Often stated - You want cheap goods , you gets whats you pays for.

 

I spent a few  years in a Government department (bureaucracy). Universal in our system is competitive quoting for goods & services . This is an excellent system IF specifications are well constructed and the quoting free from corruption. There is constant pressure to go with the cheapest quote. Combine this with the "bean counters" undermining of technical/management staff,  you then get poorly developed/executed specifications. Then there is the political influence (same as in dictatorships).The result is that its not the most cost effective, good/service that is selected = down stream additional cost due to system failures.

 

China and other dictatorships, tend not to have competitive quoting or at least not the way democracies have. Their system is all about influence & favour = even more corruption, than our flawed system. In a dictatorship, you quote below cost and then deliver the goods/service, below cost = down stream additional cost due to system failures.

 

Our system has the potential to be better. There will be short term individual department excellence, the right people (administration) in control. Unfortunatly this will never be universal.😈

 

 

 

 

[BurnieM]

I believe many (most?) Chinese goods are of high quality.

 

However, except for the most simple products, all products use components from multiple suppliers.

All you need is a single sub-supplier trying to save 1 cent on a 50 cent component and you destroy the reliability and reputation of a $30,000 product.

 

While some Chinese manufacturers understand this, a significant number do not.

An engine gets a bad rep and 5 years later nobody wants to buy it. Rebrand it, make small changes to its appearance and you are good for another 5 years.

 

Chinese motorcycles have a poor reputation in the Australian market but they are cheap so some still sell.

I would really like the Rotax clone to succeed but it comes from a high volume engine/motorcycle manufacturer.

Their product may be good but I do not know. 

My western mind says if they do not want to prove it in Australia then there is probably something that they know that I do not.

 

Like I said, China will eventually get there. 

I was in China in 2012 and I thought China will be a force in 20 years when they sort out their quality control.

Now I am thinking 50 years.

 

Undoubtedly others are thinking this also.

Probably why nobody seems too fussed about the buildup of Chinese warships who have not been tested in any battle.

This is not to say that you cannot inflict a lot of damage with a large number of men and warships.

I would not like to be Taiwan.

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Check out the Russian war model - just keep putting bodies up to draw fire and wear out the opposition.

Like Russia, China has an enormous standing military - lots of bullet fodder.😈

[danny_galaga]

10 hours ago, onetrack said:

Well, a new Childrens Hospital was built here in Perth a few years ago, and almost immediately, excessive levels of lead were found in the water from the piping in the hospital. The lead was traced to brass pipe fittings that contained unacceptable levels of lead. Guess where the pipe fittings came from?

 

In addition, roof panels were fitted to the Hospital, that were later found to be tainted with asbestos. Guess where those panels came from? And guess who produced documentation stating that their panels were free of asbestos, prior to supply? It's a constant problem from that big manufacturing country to our North. 

 

Try buying a new Chinese generating set, and see if you can get it to reliably produce its factory claimed output. Good luck with that.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-27/perth-childrens-hospital-cleared-for-opening-after-lead-problem/9591812

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-14/asbestos-found-in-perth-childrens-hospital-roof-panels/7628108

 

Some undercutting from building contractors buying the cheapest quality parts can't really compare to aircraft and military equipment. 

[BurnieM]

I good way to see how the world judges Chinese quality control would be to list non-Chinese companies and countries who have purchased Chinese aircraft and miltary equipment.

 

Please also include whether those companies/countries are using Chinese finance for these purchases.

 

Yes, China will get there but they are not there yet.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by BurnieM

[skippydiesel]

"Yes, China will get there but they are not there yet."

I agree in part China pretty well supplies/dominates the World with goods - I think in this respect they "are there" and have been for some time.

They are already very influential in most/all? third World countries. One could argue that this includes Australia/NZ as we seem to be beholden to the Chinese purchasers for a lot of our exports.

Military ?? They have THE BOMB, possibly Germ  & Chemical Weapons and there is no doubt, the intercontinental vehicles that can deliver the same. Their military is huge & very well trained. Will the next WW be conventional ?  missiles & drones as primary offensive weapons?? I realy don't want to dwell to much on this, as it will come down to a very small number of psychopaths, to determine if there will be a war or not.

 

Point of interest - When AUKUS was still in the planning/discussion phase, an Australian military expert voiced the opining that by the time we get our subs, they will be have been rendered obsolete by under sea drones that can "loiter" almost indefinitely on the sea floor (note the drone subs in the Chinese military display). Strange that we have not heard anything further from this expert ???????😈