Landing Fees

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Turbs,

Do you have any legal insight/comment on, what I believe is a requirement under Australian Consumer Law, to post (advertise, etc) the fees that may be levied/charged by an airfield management, should you use their facility??😈

This is the link to the NSW Fair Trading Act 1987, There might be something in this.

 

https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/fta1987117/

[onetrack]

This what I get from a search regarding Avdata actions, in case of non-payment of airstrip/aerodrome fees; -

 

"Avdata operates as a billing agent for airport and aerodrome owners and does not generally take direct legal action itself.

Instead, they manage accounts for up to 90 days, after which unpaid debts and enforcement - such as legal action, or aircraft detention - are referred back to the respective airport owner or local council.

 

The Avdata Australia Privacy Policy notes they may provide operator information to debt recovery agencies, if instructed by the aerodrome owner.

For specific legal actions or outstanding debts, the matter is pursued by the local council or airport authority, whose facilities were utilised.

 

Key Points on Dispute Resolution:

 

Debt Handover: If an invoice is unpaid for an extended period, Avdata typically refers the debt back to the asset owner (like a council) to integrate into their own sundry debt recovery process.

 

Dispute Process: Facility conditions (such as the Bendigo Airport Conditions of Use) mandate that operators must exhaust formal dispute resolution procedures, before any court proceedings are commenced by the airport operator.

 

Collection Tactics: While direct lawsuits from Avdata are rare, facility owners often enforce charges by pursuing debts through local civil procedures, refusing future access to aerodromes, or enforcing aircraft liens."

 

Burnies advice about requesting the list of fees and charges in a reasonable advance period, sounds sensible and practical to me. I see no reason why an airport operator would fail to answer that query, even if it is only to direct the inquirer to the appropriate page of their website. Many councils bury their regularly-sought-after basic information in an obtuse manner on their sites.

 

The bottom line comes back to whether the outstanding amount is worth pursuing. For amounts under, say $150, I'd have to opine no airstrip/aerodrome operator would bother expending time, effort, and funds in trying to recover small amounts.

Over an amount, such as the aforementioned amount, I'm sure they would pursue it through legal recourse, and then you would likely end up receiving a court summons, and incurring other costs, which including your lost time in responding, would certainly add up.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by onetrack

[Thruster88]

How much is the landing fee at Armidale airport?

 

AI Overview

 

 

 

Landing fees at Armidale Regional Airport (YARM) vary based on the aircraft type and category. For general aviation (GA) light aircraft, landing fees are capped at \(\$10\), and light aircraft grass parking is \(\$10\) per night. [1, 2, 3]

Landing fees and other aviation charges are determined annually by the Armidale Regional Council. Specific charges apply per tonne of the aircraft’s Maximum Take-Off Weight (MTOW), which are billed through Avdata. [1, 2]

If you would like a breakdown for a specific aircraft weight or need details about commercial fees, let me know and I can help you find the precise figures.

Fees and Charges 2025-2026 - Armidale Regional Council

INTRODUCTION. Each year Council is required to determine fees and charges for services it provides. The fees and charges are made up of fees provided under the ...

Armidale Regional Council

 

ARMIDALE AIRPORT REDUCES GENERAL AVIATION LANDING & PARKING FEES ... - Facebook

30 July 2024 — ARMIDALE AIRPORT REDUCES GENERAL AVIATION LANDING & PARKING FEES Armidale Airport has announced it is reducing general aviation landing and parking charges, see...

 

Facebook·Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association Australia

 

Airports billing through Avdata

Landing* $37.26 per tonne, minimum $37.26. RPT apron parking >2hrs $1,095.30 per day; GA apron parking $4.98 per tonne (minimum $25.00) per day. Directions. Map...

Avdata

 

Reduced aviation fees at Armidale Airport take off - Guyra Gazette

30 July 2024 — Light aircraft landing fees at Armidale Regional Airport have been reduced from $17 to $10 and light aircraft grass parking fees have been reduced from $34 to $

 

 

 

[Thruster88]

Also, in ozrunways for Armidale at the point where you could select documents the landing fees are displayed on the screen. CASE DISMISSED. 

[BurnieM]

To check I would suggest you go direct to the website of the airport owner.

Councils usually state this information and sometimes it is even easy to find.

 

I would not rely on an a Google response or even a usually reliable third party like OzRunways.

 

For each false claim I would respond in writing either mail or email and send this to Avdata and the airport owner.

Print a hard copy and file it away.

Simply state you are the owner of REGO and did not land at FIELD on DATE.

Notes such as overflew at 4500 southbound document on the hard copy for your use only.

Then do nothing.

 

For legit fees pay them stating you are only paying for X, Y and Z.

Keep a hard copy of legit payments and correspondence.

 

I hear these rumblings on a few forums and it is possible in 5 years time they will pick somebody to make an example of. Cover yourself. After initial notification you are under no obligation to follow them up.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by BurnieM

[skippydiesel]

12 hours ago, onetrack said:

On the other hand - the Victorian Consumer Affairs site says a business is, "generally not obliged to list or display its prices". This goes counter to my interpretation of the ACL site wording.

 

However, I do still come across a sizeable number of businesses that advertise their pricing is, "available upon application". So, Skippy, it looks like you will have to ask every airstrip/aerodrome you wish to land at, for a list of their landing fees and charges.

 

A failure to provide that full list of fees and charges for use of their facilities, after requesting it, could be construed as misleading and deceptive conduct.

 

https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/consumers-and-businesses/products-and-services/business-practices/advertising-and-promotions/pricing

 

As aviation matters are usually considered to be within Federal jurisdiction , this may be a more consistent/productive direction to explore.

 

As we all know the State system in Au is a drag on our legal and economic system - well past time to get rid of it.😈

Edited 2 hours ago by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

 

12 hours ago, BurnieM said:

The argument is if it costs more than $10 to save the $10 they are demanding then it is cheaper to just pay.

 

If the landing fee is published on say a council website that is accessible then it is probable that the law does require you to pay.

However it seems unlikely that a council will take action if you refuse to pay one landing fee.

 

If it is not published somewhere easy to access then sending an email to the manager of the airport you intend to land at say a week before you intend to land is a reasonable amount of time ahead to expect an transparent cost.

If no response then refuse to pay any demand after.

 

The other question is what does Avdata do if you refuse to pay one landing fee ? Nothing ?

What does Avdata do if you refuse to pay 50 landing fees ?

 

Is anybody aware of Avdata ever taking any legal action against any aircraft owner ?

If this has never happened then this is probably your answer.

 

 

 

The impractical suggestion, to contact each and every Council, that does post its landing fees, has been addressed.

 

If what I said, does not answer your statement, please repeat it.😈

 

[BurnieM]

Que ?

 

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

How much is the landing fee at Armidale airport?

 

AI Overview

 

Landing fees at Armidale Regional Airport (YARM) vary based on the aircraft type and category. For general aviation (GA) light aircraft, landing fees are capped at \(\$10\), and light aircraft grass parking is \(\$10\) per night. [1, 2, 3]

 

AI is incorrect - no surprise! 

 

I was charged $17/landing

 

Dalby $10.51/landing

 

Neither posted their fee schedule in ERSA 😈

[skippydiesel]

5 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

Que ?

 

"If it is not published somewhere easy to access then sending an email to the manager of the airport you intend to land at say a week before you intend to land is a reasonable amount of time ahead to expect an transparent cost.

If no response then refuse to pay any demand after."

 

As previously mentioned - Contact a Council, for information that should be readily available, can take from, many minutes (if extremely lucky) to several weeks, to get an informed answer.

The reality is you get past from one person to another, usually ending with a call back offer (that can take days to weeks to materialise) or delaying requests to put your enquiry in writing (I ask for a contact name to address the email to - more eqivacation).

The few Council Fee & Charges web pages, that I have accessed, are so complex that it may take quite some time, just to find the aviation section, which then requires  deciphering (not always successful).

 

Your suggestion is fine for commercial  aviation activities, that may be repeated over a significant period but not  practical for most private/recreational pilots conducting "one off" trips, often at short notice due to weather & other considerations😈

[BurnieM]

Sounds all wonderful but not what I am talking about.

 

What I was suggesting is that you can show you made a reasonable effort.

Not suggesting that you wait forever or even follow up.

 

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

Also, in ozrunways for Armidale at the point where you could select documents the landing fees are displayed on the screen. CASE DISMISSED. 

Interesting - I have never "selected documents"

 

I get all this sort of information from NAIPS/ERSA. There are no actual fees posted for Armidale - just words to the effect that fees will be charged.

 

Please post a, for computer dummies (me), step by step, access to the information in OzRunways for Armidale.

 

I would also make the point that not all private pilots use OzRunways - trading information/conditions should be posted where its most readily accessible to all -

CASE CONTINUES!

 

😈

[skippydiesel]

4 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

Sounds all wonderful but not what I am talking about.

 

What I was suggesting is that you can show you made a reasonable effort.

Not suggesting that you wait forever or even follow up.

 

I suggest the question/responsibility lies with the service/good provider (airport owner)- did they make a reasonable effort to provide (post) the information in a readily accessible way???

😈

[Thruster88]

34 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Interesting - I have never "selected documents"

 

I get all this sort of information from NAIPS/ERSA. There are no actual fees posted for Armidale - just words to the effect that fees will be charged.

 

Please post a, for computer dummies (me), step by step, access to the information in OzRunways for Armidale.

 

I would also make the point that not all private pilots use OzRunways - trading information/conditions should be posted where its most readily accessible to all -

CASE CONTINUES!

 

😈

The correct landing fee information can be easily found on the Armidale council website. Not sure why it is provided ex gst.

 

The "documents" button allows viewing of the ERSA for the selected airport.

 

 

[onetrack]

Numerous businesses provide pricing based on "excluding" GST because they do not deal directly with consumers.

 

In Business-to-Business transactions, it is acceptable under the law, to provide only "ex-GST" pricing.

[skippydiesel]

Thruster 88

 

"The correct landing fee information can be easily found on the Armidale council website. "

 

Thanks for that BUT why not in the airman's airfield information bible, ERSA.

 

No one should have to search other document/locating/publication's/etc for the cost of receiving a service (access to an airfield)😈

[turboplanner]

48 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Numerous businesses provide pricing based on "excluding" GST because they do not deal directly with consumers.

 

In Business-to-Business transactions, it is acceptable under the law, to provide only "ex-GST" pricing.

No it is not; I had to find out once for a customer, so put in a request for an explanation to the Taxation Department; thay said it was illegal to quote a price without GST. This was a National customer whose books were all based on the Accounts Department wanting ex GST pricing because they recovered their GST.

I set up an excel sheet which printed it both ways; the Fleet Department and ourselves referred to what the Taxation letter said and the accountants got the Nett value of the item.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

 

 

The "documents" button allows viewing of the ERSA for the selected airport.

 

 

Still not getting it.

Have most of /similar to, the YARM inset you show but no Landing Fees😈