Oscar

Nick, I gained a DoT (as it was at the time) Airworthiness Inspector's approval, plus minor repairs to fibreglass, and wood for gliders, mainly through a GFA course. Having grown up in a workshop and learned the proper use of tools and equipment helped, but as OK says, some people just do have an 'aptitude' for certain types of work and others don't. Just little things, like having the 'feel' for too much tension going into a bolt so you stop turning the spanner BEFORE it gets to yield point.

I think SAA runs some 'builder's courses?'

Nothing beats experience and watching people who know do things, asking them 'why is it done that way?' and understanding the answers can take you a long way. But a caveat there - you do need to actually understand what they say, not understand what you may think they say! Most people will be really helpful to someone who is obviously genuinely trying to get information, I've always found. And something that has always helped me - don't be afraid to ask 'dumb' questions, it's a hell of a lot cheaper and safer than making dumb mistakes because you didn't ask the question!

Saw them under construction up at Dalby a few years back; they were impressively well made but labour-intensive and a high parts-count to manufacture and assemble. Seemed to me to be rather like a modern Victa Airtourer in their general construction - classical metal aircraft. TheBoomer offered modern occupant protection, but the old Victa can be used for spin training..

ah I see, if we cut our wages to US standards then we could have a similar unemployment rate and per head debt as the US ...... great ..... oh wait

What do the unions have to do with the quality of maintenance? I know that generally speaking, their maintainers do a quality job, they, in my opinion, take an excessively long time to do the work they do, and ask a fortune for it. To be fair to them, my opinion is formed from working with some ex-Qantas employees, as well as listening to their stories of how business was conducted.As for voting with my backside....I hate flying on any aircraft where I'm not allowed to do my own pre-flight.

Dr Zoos, has it occurred to you that wages and prices are inextricably entwined? As wages go up, prices go up, profits remain about the same margin. As prices go up, the CPI goes up, wages follow. Good management remains profitable, bad management does not. You want to talk comparative salaries? Australian CEOs have accelerated their median salaries by way more than the international average in the last 10 or so years. Our houses are the biggest per family in the 'developed' world. Our commercial rents are off the planet.

I've been an employee, (27 or so years), a Director of a SME (nearly 10 years), a sole-trader Consultant (also nearly 10 years). In all my career, 'Union' activity has played almost no significant part - whether as (for a while) a member of a Union, or later as an employer. As an employer, it was simply a part of our cost structure and we handled it. We were sufficiently successful that in the end we were made an offer we couldn't refuse to join with one of the major engineering consultancy companies in the world (Worley Parsons).

Go look at history and what the 'union-breaking' Thatcher years did for the UK. It has no domestic auto manufacturing industry as a result, no domestic aviation manufacturing industry. Then look at the growth of the Australian economy in and post the Hawke government and the 'union accord' that he brokered.

Then, if you really want to understand the problems of Qantas, you need to read: 'On the Psychology of Military Incompetence', by Norman Dixon. It is a compelling discussion of the reasons for failure to effectively manage a specific situation and Alan Joyce ticks all the boxes that Dixon creates.

Virgin Blue operates in the same environment. Do you hear Borghetti whingeing about the unions?

That one is just loverly! I believe they are a bit sharp in the stall, but they go like a cut cat for the hp. Didn't Barry Bishton have one? I have never tired of watching this video of Steve climbing out in his inverted Olds-V8 -powered one:

I presume you mean 'adversarial'? Yes, it used to happen. Which side last pulled the rug from its customers, leaving them stranded, world-wide?

I said earlier - carve off Qantas international, let it go into the world market with Alan Joyce as its CEO; keep a domestic service that is at least 51% owned nationally with a government guarantee of debt in return for a guaranteed minimum level of service to the Australian community, with a competent CEO and Board.

Qantas maintenance used to be second to none. What it is now, I don't know. But I have reservations about their management's understanding of that value.

For those vilifying Australian union activity in regard to Qantas, I offer you a challenge: be about to step on to a Qantas flight overseas. Be handed a copy of the current maintenance release for your aircraft from 'The Happy Sunrise Aircraft Maintenance Facility' vs sighting one for the next flight out from a Qantas Australian maintenance base. Be offered the opportunity to defer to the next flight for a surcharge of $10.

Vote with your bottom on the seat.

Airline Management 101: compare and contrast: http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/virgin-ceo-john-borghetti-talks-to-abc-journalist-elysse-morgan.114179/ with any recent interview with Alan Joyce.

Of course, accelerating like hell in a Peugeot 403 is a relative term... but a pair of Cibie Super Oscars (no relation, dammit) certainly helped. A mate of mine got socked in and had to land there years ago, in a Super Cub ( I think, could have been an Auster) with a Blanik on the rope, interrupting an enroute to Bankstown from Bathurst.. When they'd tied down, all that could be heard was the brapping of frogs, it's very peaceful there, they had to walk to town (before the days of mobile phones.). Hasn't changed that much, except for the row of tidy hangars.

I guess we'll lose it one day, though there's quite a bit of 'old, quiet' money in the Southern Highlands and some of that monied gentry probably own aircraft hangared there, and may be able to buy Council (and afford to re-sell it at a loss..). I live directly below the route from there to The Oaks, and there's a surprising amount of local traffic, particularly on weekends. When the ceiling is low, wee beasties scuttle across the top of my place quite frequently.

I believe it was originally a WWII Mustang strip, one of those set-up to keep a few aircraft out of shelling range of Sydney Harbour. Wedderburn may have been another. There were about four parking bays; we set up the hangar in one of those (almost directly opposite the gate.) Most of the bitumen is still in quite good nick.

Ayavner - it's most always pretty quiet there, but there are usually people working away in their hangars.. a small amount of history / background that may explain some things: the airstrip is on privately-owned land (by a local farmer) and he won't sell to the BDAC at any price, so there is always the threat that if Council re-zones that area for subdivision, it'll go. It's always a bit of a balancing act for the BDAC, and they know that any generation of local antipathy towards aircraft could likely tip the balance. When my brother started using the strip in the late 60's he was the only person flying from there, and we had to keep in good with the farmer - and one of his requirements was no take-off and landing when he was exercising his trotters on the little track you can see on the southern end.. In the winter months, my sister-in-law would drive the family car down to the strip and wait for my brother to turn final then shine the lights down the strip and accelerate like hell once he passed overhead to get some light onto the strip.

I used to fly with my brother down to/from Sydney a bit; when the ceiling was low, he'd fly up the valley from Bargo and pop out of it virtually in line with 24 and basically let down. It was alright over Lake Nepean but as you can see from Google Earth, that valley gets very tight at the top end...

A very worthwhile article to read: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/aviation/mayday-how-qantas-went-from-national-icon-to-corporate-tragedy-20140228-33rax.html

btw Ayavener (and your trip has probably been cancelled, it's raining cats here at the moment), the BDAC are very strong on 'no training' from the strip (though that can get a bit relaxed). simply because it's close to town (and a new housing estate development has come to within about 1K of it now) and the BDAC is conscious of the need to keep the noise factor down, so too many T&Gs probably won't be hugely welcomed. Alan bloody Jones blasting in and out in his hired JetRanger at about 300 feet at full chat over the nearby countryside when he stays at his property down here doesn't help matters...

Unions trying to keep wages rising at the same rate as the cost of living.....that is a big problem. When economies tank, wages should fall. There is no God-given right to maintain the purchasing power of employees while the employer is sinking.

Did that economist indicate a breakdown of those staff costs? Let's look at a few slightly more sophisticated ideas than just 'all Qantas staff are obviously being paid too much because of the bloody unions'.

Qantas used to be the world damn gold standard for airworthiness. No crashes: that's due to top aircrew and top maintenance crew. It wasn't down to bling airport lounges, best frequent flyer programme, best in-flight entertainment, Cordon Bleu sandwiches, how many cup-holders per seat in First-class.. It was down to having the best people for the seriously important jobs, and they were paid well for that.

Do we have any decent figures for the comparative rate for Australian (possibly Union) labour on a per-aircraft basis, broken down by flight crew, maintenance crew, others? Is it just possible that the productivity of Australian maintainers (to take one sector) is really quite reasonable - but it is the proliferation of aircraft types and maintenance disposition for the various types that is a serious productivity issue? The facilities, training requirements and spares inventory required for too many types of aircraft will seriously impact the apparent productivity of any maintenance unit. Flight crew can't just jump between different types.

It's WAY too simplistic to just suggest that 'Union demands' are the root cause of the problems - or that reducing 'staff costs' without looking at the factors that make up those costs - are the silver bullet.

The advent of capital M 'Management' - vs administration, where the job was to make sure that the right aircraft were ready to fly with the right people in the hot seats and the right ticks in the maintenance boxes - started the rot. Geoff Dixon should be tied to a fire-ant nest for what he achieved at Qantas, including the recruitment of the serial Mr. Toad - Allan Joyce. Joyce is somewhat the lowest common denominator of the failure of Qantas management to get its excrement arranged. OK, he's a pretty damn low denominator, I have to admit - subterranean, in fact. He couldn't run a two-flavour ice-cream stand in Siberia without losing half the stock.

Australia will only develop a vigorous regional economy by the ensured provision of four essential elements: Power, Water, Communications and Transport. Retain Qantas domestic services as a nationalised service and demand it operate for the common good. Sell off its International services - this country is well served by international airlines that, frankly, are now doing a better job than Qantas. Make sure Joyce goes with the International branch, so he is a gift to the international buyers. I give him nano-seconds of survival as CEO of Qantas International owned by overseas company(ies). We end up with decent national air services in a competitive market.

What's not to like?

My brother used to fly his Auster from there down to work at de Havilland Bankstown in the late 60's - early 70's; I helped him build the first hangar on that strip since the war!. ( now long gone). If there's a southerly, the curl-over from the hill adjacent to the south end of the strip is a bloody menace ( i.e. 06 approach) - respect it. The advice from the Berrima District Aero Club: http://www.bdac.org.au/airfield/airfield.htm is accurate! We had a PA180 try to take off on 24 a couple of years ago at max gross and about 32C ambient with a few knots up the bum - ended up in the vineyard over the side of the hill after clipping the trees on the top of the hill. Nobody hurt, but some damn angry monks from the monastery that owns the vineyard... the 24 approach is fine except if it's foggy down to less than 500.

The first thing Qantas SHOULD have learned was not to appoint Joyce. Ansett was a 'basket case' when Air New Zealand bought controlling rights from News Ltd., who had pulled the wool over Air NZ's eyes by withholding a lot of facts. Who was up to his neck in the basket case situation at Ansett? - Allan Joyce. And he obviously learned NOTHING from the situation at Ansett because he's perpetuated the same mistakes at Qantas: too many aircraft types, abominable staff relations, and a belief that adopting Reg Ansett's 'bash 'em all' style of management works in the long run.

I have a mate who used to be a Check Captain at Qantas. He has several sons now flying as airline pilots - for Virgin.

Good move, sir - the sheathing is not just for protection, but for torsional stiffness of the blades (I believe). A stainless l/e on such a thin prop might have adverse weight implications for the actual blade, but some of the fancier HDPE-derived plastics are pretty damn impressive as well (PEEK, for one).

Jeez, - does it HAVE to be the one person? I can think of a few who have at least ONE of those characteristics But yes, it wouldn't be easy, and would have to start, I think, with an agreed strategy by the Board and a negotiated acceptance by CASA that things need to be examined on the basis of 1) safety and 2) achieving some sort of useful purpose. If CASA simply hides behind the 'don't cause us any liability grief' stance, then it just wouldn't happen, and there's no point in going into a fight you can't win. Perhaps with a new head of CASA plus the generation of some decent understanding of the role RAA could play in regional communities at Ministerial level, there's ground for optimism. I don't want that to distract from RAA getting its existing problems solved and be operating smoothly, but I do think it's an idea worth canvassing with both the Members and the Minister to see if there is even a whiff of 'in principle' common ground.

Without going anywhere near aircraft & maintenance standards you would need a CPL (class 1 medical) for starters.Trying to change that would be a complete waste of anybody's time.

There is already a standard for CHTR/AWK and I can't see that being lowered under any circumstances.

 

For suitable aircraft price I would suggest it would be plus $300,000.

OK, I believe it's not so much a case of nudging into GA territory as developing a 'social profile' in which we are seen as being of some value to the community - and therefore having a level of community support for our activities including gaining community support to NOT lose local regional airfields. The GA fleet is slowly dying by attrition of the older aircraft, and I'm not sure that there's anything much under $200k new (other than a J430, perhaps) on the market to replace them. If our aircraft (well, some of them) can start to fill a small gap in the level of services to regional areas, I think we'll all accrue a bit of kudos in the minds of the local community and therefore gain their support. That can't, surely, harm the cause of every recreational pilot/operator in terms of having access to reasonable facilities etc.?

The FAA has just announced some revised standards for LSA aircraft: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-02-27/html/2014-04321.htm and - because the ASTM is a bloody for-profit-making body (like SAA), we can't find out what these will be without paying for them! Since they are copyright, I wonder if RAA can even reproduce them for general distribution..

The growing problems for second-tier carriers in Australia (Rex etc.) combined with the Qantas mess is probably going to shake down to fewer services to regional centres. That may well have implications down the line, including the possibility that more small regional airfields will be seen as redundant land by Councils and be sold off.. Light aviation will, I think, become the only form of 'fast' (ish) transport from smaller regional centres for things like emergency medivac and supply. We have in the RAA many quite competent aircraft capable of taking up some of the slack in terms of certain types of service to regional communities if we were to look to having a bit more of a 'professional' strand to the types of operation we can do (and no, that doesn't mean a diminshing of purely 'recreational' flying opportunity, just moving the goal posts a bit further out to allow us to undertake certain types of activities consistent with aircraft capability and pilot/operator competence).

If we are to be able to 'take up a bit of slack', we need a decent range of decent aircraft. The C162 was just not the right equation for that, but at the same time aircraft at the top-end of LSA-class competence won't get cheaper. I wonder what the sort of median price is acceptable for new aircraft that can do a bit of useful work during the week and still be fun on the weekends?

Few days back we toddled off South, weather looked ok, about 3 hrs later we are by now heading home, yip, the weather was closing in, rain cells ahead, we weaved our way around them as best poss, by now the cells are getting more wet, more closing in, retreating was not an option by now, ordinarily I do my in rain management, no probs, but this time I was forced to gain about 3000ft to get up onto my home turf area, all ended up good. Prop got quite a workout with rain damage, so yesterday I sanded it back removing all the damage etc, re coated it with polyurethane paint. Today........I took it for a blat, to check balance etc etc was all good. Bloody hell, me jab was like a greyhound on steroids.....unreal. I,m pulling off power way under my normal cruise setting , achieving my normal cruise speed at around 97kts IAS......the difference was amazing in me jab. Moral of the story.....keep your prop in pristine condition it really pays, keep it as new.

DJP - yes, I think that's what I was trying to say in my less-than-engineer way. I've noticed that, with some of (particularly) the Euro devices around, the performance claims warrant inspection - some of the ads. over here make comments writ large about 'cruise' performance (presumably quoting Vno) and sometimes (less prominently) Va, but sometimes you need to look rather hard to find Vb, and often it's quite a gap below even Va. I can think of one fairly popular one that used to claim Vno of 2 kts less than Vne (though I think that claim isn't being made any more) - which may have been completely true, but struth, that's an awfully tiny margin at 100 kts-plus..

I wonder how many pilots tend to think about selecting their flight speed for conditions in terms of what the glossy brochure said rather than a hard study of the POH? That's a pretty understandable situation, not a snide hit at pilots at all (and I'm not the one to make any criticism anyway) - if you paid the $$ for something that's supposed to get across the sky at 'X', you'd reasonably expect it to do that, I reckon.

Thanks for that clarification. I am under the impression that the JAR-VLA gust speed requirement is somewhat lower than is typical for 'Australian' conditions?