skippydiesel

Choice did a review in 2016 but you have to be a member to see the results. Otherwise HERE is a 2019 review from Canstar

You are good man KGwilson. Thanks for that,

Seems Eveready dont do so well, with Duracell & Aldi being the front runners and all others dismal trailers. I will bear this in mind next time I purchase batteries. My thanks again

This is what we should have had 10 years ago - six of them.

 

You sure? - An aircraft developed in Canada for Canadian/North American conditions (may apply to certain parts of Europe as well), where large bodies of fresh water "litter" the landscape. True we could dump salt/sea water on our fires (that's assuming they can "load" in wave condition which I doubts) but who wants salt poisoning of our soils?

Why do fire bombers have to be "retired" aircraft - in my fantasy, the C130's would be military aircraft, flown, maintained (& routinely replaced as necessary) by the military but tasked with fire fighting when required.

Wheres the problem? Is it not our military? Funded by our tax dollars?

Who dictates that our military cant be used in all sorts of emergency response, right from the start of the situation. This crazy and expensive concept that the military can only be used as a last resort is just illogical.

Our military should not only be trained in warfare but also in emergency response - that means in the aviation context our C130 pilots would be skilled water bombers but should also apply to any military asset that can be used as a civilian emergency response.

Wow ! quite the thread drift - what fun! As a life long horse rider I am compelled to both agree/disagree.

Agree: Following horse flats is a right royal pain in the donkey but just think of the poor nag - You try standing in a trailer, as it corners/brakes/accelerates, goes over uneven surfaces, without using your hands to stay upright . You might appreciate ultra smooth, cautious driving by your human.

Disagree: They do not often travel in convoys (3 or more vehicles together). It just not convenient to do so with so many vehicles/drivers of differing capabilities. However if you are unfortunate to come across participants leaving a meet/competition, like any such activity where people are finishing up at the same time, there will be an informal (not travelling together) crowd/mass flooding onto the main roads in all directions - yes very annoying but not a specific problem of the equestrian world.

Now Caravans/Motor -homes:

It is my humble opinion that ALL vehicles should travel as close to the posted speed limit as conditions allow. It is just crass, when people travel below the speed limit or drive erratically, speeding up/slowing for no discernible reason. What is even more annoying, is such drivers often display signs, on the back of their vehicle, advising the frustrated road users behind them, that they are behaving in this inconsiderate way quite deliberately. Why does the highway patrol not pull them over for creating a traffic hazard? In many other countries it is either custom or law which requires a driver to pull over to allow a following queue of traffic to pass.

Being rude here, especially to Facthunter, is not going to sell airplanes. Rude?? Please quote when I was rude. I'm rude to people on this site, but I'm not trying to sell planes. Seems that you confuse disagreement, with rudeness- I disagree with Nev and others, frequently but when I do I hope I am not rude.

 

Someone implying or directly criticising your planes is an opportunity to offer a flight to someone who cares and who can teach you something. Thanks for the advice. I think you will find that I frequently offer TIF's (in this Forum) to any who may, seriously, want to investigate the aircraft I promote. You might even learn something. It might even not be too late. Agreed - stop learning and you might as well be dead

 

I fly a Foxbat. Good support is so much more important than 5 kts or 10 kg. Foxebat! - great little aircraft, what are you implying? With every single interaction with Foxbat Australia, I am, rightly or wrongly, quietly judging. ?? Go the extra mile? Own up and help with problems? ??*Make it easy to have difficult convos with?* (So far so good.)

Correct me if I am wrong - there seems to be an implication in your comments, that I am "knocking" other aircraft - Not the case. I am promoting mine vigorously. In my view that means is, when I see an aircraft being promoted that's claimed to be able to cruise at say 120 knots for 18 L/h fuel used and has a stall of 44 knots or so - I jump in and say, consider my aircraft it can cruise at 134 knots @ 18 L/h and has a stall of 27 knots. This in no way implies the other aircraft is not a worth mount, it just says - Hay! look at what I am offering - wider flight envelope & fuel greater economy/ or speed.

Facthunter's posts are generally very fair and reasonable, I don't know him personally but sounds like he has a vast experience and knowledge of all things that fly. I have been on this forum for many years and agree with most of his posts.

you are just been a salesman and don't like hearing negative comments on a product your trying to sell/promote, its bad form bagging instructors if you have never instructed because they say the Atec is slippery and tricky to land.

Its great that you support your friend however I suggest you try reading and more importantly understand, what what I have written.

As I have said befor; Nev is a veritable font of aviation/mechanical knowledge. That does not mean he reads the statements of others well nor that he is always correct. The point of a forum like this is the free (polite) exchange of ideas.

I have never bagged anyone, let alone an instructor - I relayed an actual scenario, that happened to involve a small group of instructors, at a single flying school - I didn't "bag them" I gave a factual account, using their comments and my analysis of the same, as it related to the flying of a Faeta aircraft. My comments were not about instructors (as you would know if you took the time to actually read what I said) but the human inclination to stick with the familiar, making transition to different aircraft a challenge. In frustration/discomfort it is common, for all of us, to blame the machine, rather than the operator (ourselves).

I am happy, as always, to respond to any reasonable polite comment/criticism of the ATEC aircraft, with factual information. If you have something to impart on this topic please do so.

I do not, have not & will not make unsubstantiated claims about the aircraft I am selling. All my comments have either been verified by my actual experience (in my Zephyr) or by the experience of my partner Dexter (in his Faeta NG) we do not blindly regurgitate the factory performance claims.

Should you wish to challenge the above statements, please do so, all I ask is that you do so using verifiable facts

So I guess the low response rate and subjective nature of the same (all welcome to be sure) means that this is an area of little interest, study & measurement.

Kinda surprising as we all depend on these little blighters for so many things in our daily life, let alone systems in light aircraft.

I wonder has Choice done any research here??

I know its easy to say, when I have been flying the same aircraft for 11 years or so, but try not to over control the aircraft.

In "normal" flight situations, the best pilots dont seem to do very much in the way of control inputs they tend to let the aircraft fly itself.

Great cost effective idea OK and because it is our collective Governments are unlikely to embrace it.

The idea is similar to utilising (possibly expanding) our military Hercules fleet - pretty much a no brainier as a seasonal "modular" conversion to a water bomber. The research has already been done - it works.

Back on the 17th March a friend ordered a 912ULS from floods...it was $27,000 plus GST. So that is $29,700. There were 6 engines at the time left in OZ..and another friend of mine grabbed one of those 6 as well the next lot expected in were going to be 12.5% more

Yeah! they told me the same story when I phoned for a replacement engine - but when I asked for a written quote inc GST,what I got was $27,720.00 . As IBob pointed out that is for engine, oil tank (why I would want that when I already have one ) , at least part of the cooling system and stub exhaust pipes. There was the a long list of accessories 99% of which I dont need

4 points of anchorage and a X body belt system , have got to be better, in most, if not every circumstance.

An even distribution of forces beats the unbalanced sash type thats why all race cars have 4 point harness.

Remember, when correctly fastened/adjusted the "buckle" should end up at about or slight below your navel. I find it best to have a tight waist and some free movement (kept to a minimum) of my upper body to facilitate reaching for "things" in the cockpit.

Your bones are unlikely to be softer, more likely to be less dense and brittle

Angles of attachment are important but even more important is the security of those attachment/anchors. Its easy to have a good looking system, not so easy to do it right.

I just used the 9 V as an example - AAA, AA, etc all have lots of different catch names (& bunnies doing unnatural things), claimed internal chemistry & wildly varying cost/price. I have never seen any sort of performance critique/reviews on what is best suited for what application or on "bank for the buck" eg above comments on fire/smoke alarms - may a few $$ change every year (easy do same date), pay mega $$ change (if you remember ) every 15 years (may have turned into some sort of crystalline mass by then).

My main interstate is use in aviation applications; AA back up power for my Garmin GPS, 9 V for my noise cancelling (only used on very long trips) head set, AAA for my emergency touch, etc etc

AND THEN

What might the merits, or otherwise, be of the rechargeable equivalents??

Cost to change

Yeah! but its been about 50 years since we (UK) were transitioning from Imp to M. In that time almost every manufacturing system must have been replaced/changed over multiple times.

These days there is a bewildering supply of batteries and associated pricing (just this am I saw a single 9 volt battery for $17 while right beside it was another for $4.50) - which give the best bang for the buck?

I believe around the $34,000 mark

Nooooo - Just had a quote from Floods " $27,720.00" inc GST for a 912 ULS - within a few $$$ same price in Europe & USA

There's the 5 year rubber replacement, but there's alot more o-rings and seals that are not part of it that I would change as well.

The o-rings sealing the oil pump for example. They would be nice and hard for sure.

There's also the rear crank seal and water pump seal.

For the carbs, I'd send them to Floods for full strip/inspection and replace everything rubber.

Rocker cover seals.....

Inlet manifold o-rings to head....

Radiator cap....

Gearbox strip and inspection......replace front seal.

Oil can lid o-ring......

There's probably more.....

 

CPS have a good graphical breakdown of part assemblies to look at....

https://www.cps-parts.com/menus/rtx/parts_4.html

Naaa! Cant agree with you . Just spending for the sake of it. You are way overthinking/servicing it - my 2000 commissioned (purchased 1999), 920 hr, 912 ULS, has always been serviced on hobbs/calender time, using Rotax recommend fluids/products. No oil leaks, no coolant leaks, fuel consumption as terrific as always, plug colour nice & light brown, leak down/compression tests all within limits, runs like a sowing machine. What more could you ask.

Most of what you have recommended will not impact on safety and can be addressed, in the unlike event of there being some symptom, when it arises.

One of the many reasons I like my ATEC Zephyr, is that it, unlike so many aircraft, is all in M-----Soooooooo easy!

Seems to me the building trade & supply have never converted - even when its in M its still mostly in the old Imp dimensions

The ebbs and flows are normal, just your system adapting to the fact that no two circuits are exactly the same; you're flying in an ever changing air system.

Not only that, you are in a medium you cant see, except with the aid of a device like a windsock, or ripples on a dam, etc and yet you must react appropriately to its every mood - challenging even for the most experienced.

I stand to be corrected but it seems that most, if not all automotive brake systems are imperial, often with metric equivalent quoted - how come?

Jenny

 

I have over 5,000 hours behind Jabiru 2200 engines.

 

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That said, the Rotax engines do have some advantages which can also be a disadvantage.

The gear box allows longer props, Marginal but the gear box is one of the problem parts. This is news to me - please give evidence. The engine sound is different since it typically is running at twice the room of the Jabs. That's why Rotax 912/814 run a gearbox, to bring propeller speed down to an efficient range (The Jab @ around 3000 rpm is at the upper limits of efficiency)

The engine is about 20 pounds heavier which eats up some of that extra hp. Please state comparative installed figure (and I for one would prefer KG)

Yes, parts are much more expensive. Expense can also be related to frequency of replacement - most Rotax 912's go to their 2000 hr TBO (and above) without significant repair/overall costs

Two carbs have to be synced properly. True - but potentially you have better air/fuel distribution (better economy/smoother running/ more even combustion chamber temps) and in truth its not hard to do - I do a check every 100 hrs and rarely have a need to "tweak"

I mix gas types with no issues and run my 2200 on ARCO premium 91 AKI. The higher compression of the Rotax may not allow this octane level. Although I have noticed that some do run mogas. Most Rotax 912's run on MOGas (95-98 RON) but can also run on AvGas (with changes to servicing regime)

The Rotax engine is well built and runs a long time between overhauls. Very true It's the gear box and Sprauge clutch that need more frequent servicing. Really ?? - in general the Sprag Clutch gives problems when people persist in using a low energy battery (avoidable) and now 912's are fitted with "Soft Start" which reduces the shock loading on components further making it unlikely that clutch problems will occur. As for the gearbox - there is an inspection scheduled for mid life engines but this does no necessarily mean replacement/rebuild.

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My engine burns 2.8 gph at above 7500 MSL when I lean it out. Very good. I flight plan my 912 ULS (100 hp) at a conservative 14 L/h, routinely get under 13 L/h and have seen under 10 L/h for slow flights "around the patch" (these are whole of flight figures not cruise)

I am counting on this engine to take me to the day when due to age I'll have to hang up my headset for good. I'm 83 so I still have a few years to enjoy flight. Long may you fly

Kyle & RFguy -

Dexters Faeta NG is fairly well "optioned up" (higher cost) It is also the more expensive of the two Faeta models.

The Faeta V specifications quoted - All are conservative and are at max Euro weight standards, except where specified otherwise.

As for typical cruise; Dexter likes speed, he cruises at 130-134 knots (indicated) where ever he goes - I believe at 53- 5400 rpm for 17-18L/h fuel burn.

I notice you focused on the upper end of the flight envelope - dont forget that having great low speed handling and reasonable sized wheels will make for stress free arrivals and in the unfortunate event of a crash more likely to walk away.

Yep, also with a price tag to match. The more advanced the kit, the more you are going to pay

True! As with most projects the aspiring builder must weigh the "benefits".

At one end of the spectrum, most of us will know of a "serial" builder. Their satisfaction comes from the build process itself - less so the flying. Quick build/advanced kits are unlikely to meet their personal needs.

Then there are those who work in a particular medium, wood/metal/composite. So their kit must be dominated by their chosen material. This group tend to be wedded to their chosen material, limiting choice.

Some kits are available as "plans" or as "flat pack" pre drilled & shaped (RV comes to mind). The CNC/predrilled systems tend to come at a higher up front cost but plans can exponentially extend the build time (many not completed)

In the past composite kit aircraft started as "foam" blocks that needed to be shaped - some suppliers grew concerned with the potential for aerofoils to be badly made & started supplying pre shaped skins etc - more cost.

As I understand it, aircraft constructed mainly of carbon fibre have very special build requirements - high cost investment in moulds and curing "ovens" - home builders who wish to take advantage of this material, are pretty well limited to advanced kits.

All kits offer "flexibility" even the quick/advanced kit - you can source your own engine & avionics - propeller options, up to you - paint type/colour all yours, - upholstery your choice. These areas presents potentially great savings and perversely also cost "blow outs"

You want to fly your aircraft next week - by a ready to fly aircraft - not necessarily the highest cost option, even if the outlay is heart stoppingly high.

Happy to fly in 5-10 years get a plans built - lowest cost up front , but can accumulate alarmingly over time and enthusiasm for the long haul may evaporate..

The builder must decide on the objective(s), budget/cash flow, construction type, build time - each decision carries a financial impact.

Thanks, it's a bit confusing with SD's post.....

"Stall speed (two up with full flap) will vary for each model 122 Zephyr 35 knots @ 450 kg, 321 Faeta 321 28 knots @ 472.5 kg. 321 Faeta NG 33 knots @ 472.5 kg"

Hi Kiwi - apologies for any confusion.

The figures I have quoted are from the ATEC POH for each aircraft.

As a European manufacturer they focus on their standards which are as I have posted.

It not so hard to work out that the stall speed incenses with weight - you can do your own 600 kg estimate.

I am not totally reliant on the ATEC factory for data - I fly a 20 year old Zephyr, its stall speed is seems to be a little lower than the POH. My partner, in selling ATEC aircraft, has a near new Faeta NG - again he reports a real world stall a little lower than the POH

Out curiosity - aircraft model?

Faeta NG - located in the Hunter Valley NSW - for photos go to Faeta