skippydiesel

I stand corrected - still its just the basics and like all factory built, must replace items with factory approved - no thinking outside the box.

I also wonder about selling the aircraft down the track - will certification be maintained by an L1 ?

1 hour ago, planesmaker said:

 If it is not used for training the owner can maintain it. 

Yeah - only if he gets an L2  and only the basics  - much the same same in  GA

43 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

What about the seller having a change of heart.

I went from Sydney  to the outback, to see if an engine was in any usable condition. Only to be abruptly turned away.

The seller seemed upset that l had used the GPS to drive to his address in Leeton NSW.

spacesailor

Know how you feel - agreed price & conditions on an aircraft (subject to inspection) located NSW north west. Bags packed, flight bag chokas, maps, GPS, headset - the lot. Email from vendor - had gone flying, fallen in love with aircraft again, sale off.

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

The CA25N was sold as a VH registered cheaper to operate Cessna and Piper replacement in the training market so yes it must have been certified. That would not change in a move to RAAus is my understanding. So only a 912A engine could be used. I can remember when Gazelles were worth a small fortune on the used market.

True O King & it should be serviced by a minimum of an L2 ,better L4/LAIM

Jsabuu7552 - Think positive - Your body has mounted a terrific defence against the CV invader - your immunity is bound to be extra high😂

Seriously though - your reaction was extreme (not as extreme as a thrombosis) - I just developed a slightly tender upper arm, about 24 hrs after the jab.

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

I think Sydney was in that half lockdown, but you can rest your weary head; DHHS Victoria announced this morning that Vic and NSW Police have finished investigations and no charges will be laid. One of the people was fined for not wearing a mask.

 

In some cases furniture is loaded in the one van; in other cases furniture is loaded by a crew in several loads and consolidated into shipping containers, in others some people just need a small module.

I would not expect charges if they were operating under the essential worker rules.

How the loading/transportation/unloading occurs, consolidated or not, it seems to me that the activity opens up the potential for multiple infection contacts and the export from NSW of a highly undesirables agent. At the end of the day the Q must still be asked -

• Would a delay in this activity have caused any long lasting economic/emotional loss/hardship ?? 
• If the answear is yes, can we weigh in favour of the removal activity continuing, against the potential for CV transmission and the substituent deaths, hospitalisation,  loss of productivity due to ill health and the possibility of lockdown costing billions ??

I suggest not and therefore it can not be classified as an essential activity during a pandemic lockdown - simples! So simple I wonder how the GB/NSW Gove managed to miss it.

21 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

CA25N Gazelles appear to use the 912A, this is jar22 certified. Other 80hp 912 engines are the 912F, FAR33 certified and the 912ul which is not certified.  

All very well Thruster - but is the aircraft certified or not? I

If not, the engine certification, is to all intense & purposes, irrelevant.

If yes, then the engine, airframe, avionics must be maintained to the certified standards, for continued airworthiness.

So the Q is still - is the aircraft certified?

Mr H Aardvark may have asked his question out of curiosity but then again, the asking has the implications that the answear will influence something he will or will not do with the aircraft.

5 hours ago, hairyaardvark said:

Hello. I have a VH registered CA25N. Is the 912 used in the Gazelle a certified or non-certified engine?

Richard

If the aircraft is  "certified" then all components, including engine, fall under the certification rules. So the Q is - is the Gazelle Certified ?

You can have certified engine in non certified aircraft but not visa versa

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

From memory the furniture removalists involved caused 1 or 2 of the lockdowns, ie were moving when there was no lockdown.

 

Agree that a house in lockdown can't have removalists going in, but removalists moving stock from dept to depot, usually in containers, is a different application.

Stand to be corrected but did they not come from Sydney where there was lockdown (or should have been)?? and yes they did cause a lockdown in Vic & I think SA.

I dont really think of a container of who knows what (furniture)being shipped between states (depots) as "removalist".

To me removalists are a team of people usually traveling in large covered truck, entering primases A & manually removing loading furniture, with the assistance /direction of the furniture owner. Traveling some distance and reversing the process into premises B.

So we have a team of people who have assemble from their various homes (in Sydney)possibly one or more infected with CV. They then meet indoors with the furniture owner(s) who may also be infected - spend a few hours/day together - get fed & watered at the the nearest takeaway. Then drive X hrs to somewhere (depot/down the track) get fed & watered some more in crowded truck stop (s). Arrive at destination (Vic?) and reverse the whole procedure.

Multiple opportunities for infection - essential?/necessary?

Turbo - The transport industry has, for the most part, done a great job and should be considered among the many unsung hero's of the pandemic BUT how does a house contents relocation (removalists) become an essential service, when we are all under some forme of lockdown/boarder closure?

Sure people (& their effects) must be able to relocate, for a host of good reasons, but this must not happen during a lockdown.

The whole point of a lockdown/boarder closure is to limit movement - every person who legally or illegally breaches that cordon increases the risk of transmission. Why increase the risk if you dont have to?

I am not blaming the removalist that crossed boarders (the ones that went Sydney/Orange/Molong are something else) NSW, Vic & SA were just doing their job, as an "essential service".

I do blame the authorities for not poor communication also for poor definition of what is an essential service.

1 hour ago, Jabiru7252 said:

 Only a fool would deny that both helmets and seatbelts save lives.

No offence Jab - you completly miss the point

I agree "Only a fool would deny that both helmets and seatbelts save lives."

I adopted both set belts & helmets, long befor they became law but deeply resent the state forcing me to wear them. Even going so far as to retro fit  belts to my Morris 1000.

One of the corner stones of democracy is; Law/legislation is made to

• Protect the individual from unwanted actions by the majority 
• Conversely, to protect the majority from unwanted actions by the minority.

At no time should a law be enacted that protects the individual from him/herself, unless they be a minor and in the rare case of a demonstrably unsound mind.

The seatbelt/bike/motorbike helmet laws are simply an affront to democracy as are all similar laws.

Unfortunately Australia (& its States) has enacted many such laws - without protest from the population. Yet a temporary restriction on liberty, for the demonstrable good of all, has thousandths of cretins marching in the street - putting us all at greatly increased risk of CV19 and a greatly prolonged lockdown - go figure!

RossK -

I agree with your philosophy - to a point.

You seem to have left out:- There are builder/renovators out there who just love the process of making something. The value of the project, at the end of the build, is secondary to the satisfaction/enjoyment of the build itself. How often have you seen an aircraft for sale - almost nil hours - "must make way for new project". 

12 minutes ago, kasper said:

Why do you expect it? 

For safety or for process?

If for safety whose - Pilot/pax or general public?

 

AUF/RAAus knocked on the head decades ago the link between airframe design/maintenance and risk to general public.

CASA/RAAus - despite your opinion on the effectiveness of it - decry all liability for pilots/pax for the operations of the airframes - those yellow stickers are their notice of this 

 

So if it is process why expect the same process in RAAus as applies in GA when there is a stated and designed difference?

 

I would ask - do you expect the same professionalism of all motor vehicles? 

Given that they are demonstrably of higher risk to the general public than RAAus aircraft the risk would demand that ... yet several states have very different compliance regimes - annual inspection after 3 yrs old, inspection only on sale of vehicle and after being tagged by police etc.  and any/all maintenance and repairs on them is at the owners discretion without any documentation required ...

 

Aviation is in my experience not really different from many aspects of mechanical repair and maintenance but comes from a history of fanatical documentation in the name of 'safety' which is actually not required for safety but may help reduce risk of failure and/or identify failure/unsafe events after the event.

Unfortunately and to my profound disappointment, I guess you are correct - aircraft owners/pilots are no more professional than car owner /drivers.

As for cars/vehicles of which I have bought and sold quite a few in my life - Yes I do expect a certain level of traceability (provenance), service history, etc - I have along list of graduated check points, when purchasing a vehicle. At the highest level - one failure = walk away. Lowest (can be a few) =  reduction in bid.

Cars like aircraft can/do have replacement engines from time to time - not a problem if legitimately acquired, known mileage/hrs, etc

For me it is much the same for a aircraft - I have only ever purchased one but over the last 18 months have looked at perhaps 12 - actually made contact with vendor on 8 or so, inspected 3. I still dont have an aircraft. Over this time I have developed a very detailed check list. One of the most significant points is engine provenance  - no history = walk away.

Safety is only one factor - anticipated maintenance/repairs, expected service life, etc all come into a pre purchase/decision making inspection.

For sure ! Ii a RAA 19 aircraft there is much left to the owners discretion. Come sale time, if you dont have the documentation (build record, accident/repair record, airframe/engine log book, etc) you are unlikely to get a good price and may have a long wait before that buyer at a knockdown price comes along.

13 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

Well said! We are in serious trouble not from the virus but from the tyranny we are under!

Time & Place my friend - this is nether.

3 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

At the end of the day I feel that it is a risk vs benefit issue

Always and very much in the "eye of the beholder"

3 hours ago, Student Pilot said:

I have been trying to sell a disassembled aircraft for ages. A 172D in pieces. The aircraft has an STC to fit a 180HP engine. The aircraft is complete without an engine. The STC includes new prop and engine mount. I was asking 15K (the STC is worth more than that) all I got was tyre kickers, time wasters. While not a kit aircraft it's cheaper than any kit.

Not an expert but would not a C172 (certified aircraft), require a LAIM to repair it?

If I am correct - only a LAIM could afford to do a love job (without pay). Anyone else will have to pay the LAIM and its labour (not parts cost) which "kills" such projects.

Kit/Experimental aircraft can usually be worked on by the owner (no pay), with oversight by a suitably qualified person. This makes them a viable proposition for the enthusiast/person wanting to get into ownership cheaply or upgrade to a more capable aircraft..

5 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

I have been researching the aircraft for a while.  Two problems, is it repairable with moulds and where could I store and where could I repair aircraft.  Limited workshop space, completed aircraft will not fit in my garage.  Started researching a few weeks before covid lockdown, about to go to the Oaks for research.  Then lockdown. I will resume after lockdown.  No point trying to remotely solve issues.

A quick search will give you the dimensions of the assembled aircraft, from which you can infer the wings off dimension and from that some idea in how much room you will need to work on it - I did a big reno on my Zephyr 5 years ago - built a temporary  dust controlled room (can send photos) if memory serves 8 x 3 x 2 m.

Zephyr requires no molds - other aircraft may.

The aircraft is repairable - again happy to send photos of poor thing on ground and any close ups you might want.

Please do not ask for a heap of information if you are just curios

Interesting!

I think my Q was more to do with the expectation of a certain professionalism in aviation. I was very surprised to have the owner of the aircraft tell me he had no knowledge of the engines origin/provenance - seems a little like winding back the odometer on a car.

2 minutes ago, KRviator said:

So if the SoE can be renewed for a seemingly endless period - are we really in a democracy anymore? Demonstrations in Sydney, Melbourne and to a lesser extent, Brisbane, suggest we are not. When you can be arrested for planning a protest, yet alone actually participating in one, we have serious  problems with Governance in this Country. 

 

Protesting Government decisions is a fundamental human right, to which Australia is a signatory, yet how to you protest a lockdown when you're arrested for violating the very lockdown you're protesting? The worst part is it is not even an elected official who has ordered these lockdowns, rather it is an unelected public servant, with zero accountability who is making decisions with zero accountability for those decisions. We cannot vote someone else into that role next election - and in the case of the QLD CHO, she's been promoted to Governor of the state, despite openly admiotting richer people pose less of a risk than poorer people - that's her understanding of science...

I have no sympathy for your position. I am all for minimal Gov interference, the right of free expression/protest BUT NOT IN A WAR/PANDEMIC situation.

As an adult, I do not agree with the law that forces me to wear a seat belt/motor/bike helmet - I think you are a fool if you dont but to be obliged to do so is an infringement of my democratic right to self determination (As all adults can not be relied on to make good decisions for their children, I believe in this law(s) for under 18s). There are a host of similar laws that are imposed on us - do we protest - no! Why because we are sheep (my ovine apologies) and because the Gov has failed to effectively communicate the danger we are all  in and how all of use must do our best to support (sometimes crazy) rules to win through. 

1 hour ago, octave said:

Experience has shown that it is very difficult to maintain an airtight lockdown.   How do we prevent for example removalists traveling and spreading the virus. It is generally harder to prevent an action taking place than it is to prosecute after it has occured  As necessary as tough lockdowns are can we really continue shutting down even small areas regularly.   Are we going to compensate those people who cant work for a week or 2.   Are we going to be able maintain our economy when the counties we compete with do not have to have shutdowns?

 

 

You may find this hard to believe/understand; The removalist where considered an essential service - what lunatic thought that was a good idea?

Well as for the econamy::

You dont have a healthy econamy if you dont first have a health population.

Do the lockdowns/quarantine orders very fas/hard and most will be under 10 days, if not under 5. - minimal disruption.

We are slowly understanding that the interface between us and  the incoming overseas peoples is the danger point -

All incoming people must be fully vaccinated (no exceptions).

All must undergo some form of effective quarantine (again no exceptions). This must remain until it can be shown that the vaccine prevents transmission (we are not there yet). If transmission potential judged low - in coming travellers should be obliged to wear electronic tracer for potential infective period.

All people working in this area must (by law) be fully vaccinated, wear appropriate PPE , practise good hygiene and be regularly tested for infection. This will never be a 100% secure system but will minimise "brake throughs" - which then must be addressed fast and hard.

If we adopt the above (or very similar) our econamy can contine with little (not no) interuption

54 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

The epedemiologists know all that and have an algorithm which has worked very well all around Australia; the problem is Sydney people seem to have a death wish and flout all the rules.

The problem with Sydney was undue political interference with the epidemiologists - everyone new that Delta (& possibly future variants) was a game changer but not the Gladys administration, who wanted to stay with the self declared Gold Standard, fully supported & encouraged by Scomo.

There were very few if any rules  to "flout" - mostly self interpretation/voluntary adherence - go figure.

Your use of the past tense, when mentioning algorithms, is telling - if you dont adapt fast, to a new situation/variant, you will loose, as has Sydney and subsequent infected States.

Just now, octave said:

 

 

 

Perhaps Skippydiesel you could give us your prescription for how we should proceed.  Should we return to the 2020 way of dealing with covid?

I have already made my suggestion erlier in this conversation - will repeat:

Outbreak

Lockdown within 24 hrs of a CV19 person being identified as active in the community

Geographic area MUST include "hotspot" and a large buffer zone eg hot spot Bondi - buffer zone ALL of Sydney Basin

Lockdown/Quarantine must be very very strict, no movement of people with the exception of truly essential workers (health/power/water/fuel/etc) and essential needs ( eg food/health/etc). 

Masks, hand washing, social distancing (now at least 2 m or better) at all times outside the home/ private car.

All social events must cease (including funeral/weddings/christenings) - for the most part these can resume as soon as lockdown opens - hopefully within 5-10 days

Severe penalties, for rule breakers, publicised with name & photo.

With luck & good public compliance, the lockdown may only last 5-10 days (not months and months)

Living with CV19

I do not support mandatory/forced vaccination

I do support secondary penalties for the unvaccinated - if you work with the public (especially the vulnerable) in any capacity - no vac no job. No travel outside Australia (during an outbreak no travel across state boundaries even if not in lockdown), etc 

All visitors (whatever occupation/rank/wealth) must be vaccinated to enter Australia - no exceptions. 

We have to get used to wearing masks when in public places where a 2m+ social distance can not be maintained - people who refuse (without good cause eg medical certificate) should be denied entry to transport/shops/ etc. Other patrons, serving staff, etc must not be put at risk by the selfish behaviour of a few.

The law (makers and enforcers) must support these sort of basic hygiene measures.

I am sure I have missed a few things.

This is all common sense stuff - the overriding philosophy; - we must be on a war footing with the pandemic - anything less and we will certainly loose

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Our CHO looks like he'll be taking us out of lockdown tomorrow Skippy.

Yeah! well Vic learnt a hard lesson from the last outbreak - acted swiftly and strongly to limit the spread of the NSW infection and are now reaping the benefit of that action. Go Vic!

Turbo my friend; As a long suffering NSW public servant (now thankfully out of purgatory) I can tell you from actual experience ,the polies get involved with every situation/decision that they imagine will have a positive/negative impact on them. There is little, other than routine operation, they dont influence.

The public has the idea that the public service functions "at arms length" from politics. This may have been so (to some extent) a few eons ago. Now ALL department heads (Directors) are political appointees (this often flows down to quit menial appointments). That's why a change of political leadership, often sees the department heads replaced soon after. This feature alone, demonstrates the incestuous relationship between the PS & the Gov of the day.

The idea that the PS gives impartial/frank/fearless advice is a thing of the past (if it ever existed). Wow betide the servant who brings unwelcome news or resists the whim of the political head.

The close relationship of the PS (both State & Federal) to their political masters, is almost always to the disadvantage of the public. 

One ever rising movement, that I believes has resulted from this relationship, is the level of secrecy our Gov's of all levels operate under/impose. Secrecy used to be reserved for those matters that may negativity impact on national security - now it can be matters of (corrupt) financial dealings, the colour of the ministers underpants, whatever they wish the public not to know.

12 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I can’t help you Skippy you are on a dream cruise. NSW is in. State Of Emergency with a Commander, the CHO.

I guess I will leave it up to the assembled committee of public opinion - who do you think is living in a fantasy world:

Turbo: who imagines the polys have nil influence on how the NSW pandemic is being handled ?

Skippyd: who thinks the polies have their mucky fingers in almost every decision made by Turbos' CHO?