Changes to Sydney Basin Air Space & something else

[skippydiesel]

I recently attended a meeting where the airspace changes to for the new airport, variously known as Western Sydney International (Nancy Bird Walton) Airport (IATA: WSI, ICAO: YSWS), also known as Badgerys Creek Airport or Western Sydney Airport, were discussed.

 

Cant say I grasped all of the changes put forward however this is what I "took away";

 

For VFR aircraft wishing to transit north/south & visa versa through the Sydney Basin.

 

There will be a new North & South Lane established, that will run from the vicinity of Campbelltown to Bankstown.

 

Aircraft using the exiting N & S Lanes (Paramatta - Brooklyn Bridge) will access the above via  Bankstown.

 

Now for the killer - To use the new Lanes will require;

 

• The lodging of a flight plan
• The PIC holing a Controlled Airspace Endorsement

 

Something Else;

 

• RAA approval to train and endorse Recreational Pilots, to enter Controlled Airspace, will be granted before Christmas (this year?).
•  
• The existing Victor 1 rout is unchanged.
•  
• The current Camden Inbound Reporting point, for aircraft coming from the West ,will be moved about 3 Nm north (Hayters Sawmill) to encourage aircraft away from The Oaks circuit area.

 

😈

 

 

[KRviator]

Here's a draft VTC (Oct 2025 revision) - and what a dogs breakfast it is! Clearance required to transit the SY Basin on account of the entire area now being Class D LL 1000 with overlying Class C.

[facthunter]

inevitable. It all HAS to be ICAO compliant. No" If's or But's and NO stuff ups. Those flying Blocks of Flats are full of People AND it's a heavily built up area.  IF you cock it up you'd wish you'd never been Born. Nev

[KRviator]

It does not have to be ICAO compliant at all. There's dozens of variations in how CAsA and ASA operate when compared to ICAO.

[facthunter]

 We are signed up to compliance. Your VH Licence IS. Your RAAus Certificate is Not CASA HATE granting exemptions for Obvious reasons. Exposure to liability being one.. People get subject to the Court Process thick and fast when aviation accidents occur. Not just by the CASA either.  How's the Average RAAus Member going to Handle THAT??  Nev

[BurnieM]

The flight plan and controlled airspace endorsement have been a requirement with all of the different airspace plans  and known for over 12 months.

 

Having to overfly Bankstown going north and south has also been known for a while.

 

RAAus getting the CA endorsement running before Christmas is good but very much in the realm of about f*king time.

 

Edited November 22 by BurnieM

[facthunter]

I suppose you all know radio FAIL procedures and all the other stuff. It's not for People who fly "Now and again" either or who don't Do radio well. You are also over a built up area without a Lot of Height Do you have 2 radios? Is your electrical system compliant? Nev

[skippydiesel]

"Having to overfly Bankstown going north and south has also been known for a while."

 

Yeh! But did you know the VFR Lanes of Entry will also require a Flight Plan???😈

[facthunter]

Mon Dieu mais Quelle Horreur!   Nev

[KRviator]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

"Having to overfly Bankstown going north and south has also been known for a while."

 

Yeh! But did you know the VFR Lanes of Entry will also require a Flight Plan???😈

Has that been confirmed, or is it just a CAsA wish-list item aired at the info session?

@facthunter mentions ICAO compliance - if introduced there's a variation right there. ICAO does not require a flightplan to operate in Class D, merely the establishment of two-way radio communications which may be as simple as Tower repeating your callsign.

[skippydiesel]

"Has that been confirmed, or is it just a CAsA wish-list item aired at the info session?"

 

Confirmed? -  a bit of yes and bit of no.

• Yes, verbally at the meeting and on the latest VTC maps - all Lanes have a red box with the words "Clearance Required".
• No, as in not yet implemented and who knows what may change between now and then.

 

Note; Victor One  looks to be unchanged ,  as does Richmond - the latter a bit unclear as I think Richmond Military ATC have always controlled this Lane.

 

😈 

Edited November 22 by skippydiesel

[Reynard]

I suspect they’ll want a squawk from a transponder as well.

 

The previous airspace version referred to Class D+.   Whatever the heck that meant….and of course unique to Australia.

[BurnieM]

13 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Has that been confirmed, or is it just a CAsA wish-list item aired at the info session?

@facthunter mentions ICAO compliance - if introduced there's a variation right there. ICAO does not require a flightplan to operate in Class D, merely the establishment of two-way radio communications which may be as simple as Tower repeating your callsign.

Yep VFR flight plan, known for over 12 months. More like an Air Services 'requirement'.

 

Lots of talk for a while now about it being a sort of D+ whatever that means.

I believe you will need a mode C transponder or higher (Skyecho will not cover it) and a VHF radio (but not a second radio).

 

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I suppose you all know radio FAIL procedures and all the other stuff. It's not for People who fly "Now and again" either or who don't Do radio well. You are also over a built up area without a Lot of Height Do you have 2 radios? Is your electrical system compliant? Nev

It is actually worse than that. Talk of a 1500 AMSL max height for this lane.

 

[skippydiesel]

"I believe you will need a mode C transponder or higher (Skyecho will not cover it) and a VHF radio (but not a second radio)."

 

Transponders

I get a tad lost with transponder designations - Class C is on the way out ? and has been for yonks.

If correct then its Class C that does not show up on ADSB IN/OUT transponders - so not on SE2 bluetoothed to an iPad. A safety issue that should concern every pilot transitioning/operating in, congested airspace.

 

Transeviers/Radio

You are correct in saying "....VHF radio (but not a second radio)" however it would be more correct to say not a second listening frequency.

Again this should concerne all pilots operating in congested airspace - ALL pilots should be listening out on Area Frequency + their operating frequency.

That the authorities accept single channel radios, in congested airspace, is an unnecessary risk to us all.

 

NOTE: Its probable that the recent loss of three lives (2 aircraft) at The Oaks, could have been prevented, if the ancient C180 had an operating ASB OUT and/or a two channel radio (Area Frequency & The Oaks CTAF)😈

[BurnieM]

Transponder mode A - 4 digit octal id code

Mode C - 4 digit octal id code plus pressure altitude

Mode S - 24 bit hex code plus pressure altitude plus callsign

Mode S extended squitter (ADS-B) - 24 bit hex code plus pressure altitude plus callsign plus GPS position including GPS altitude plus a range of other data

 

[KRviator]

@skippydiesel - just to make it easier when talking about airspace and transponders, typically transponders are referred to by mode, not class, though there is, 'technically' Class 1/2 transponders, for all practical purposes we ignore that as it is US-specific and refer to transponders as Mode A (able to squawk a 4-digit code and that's it), Mode C (squawk a code + Altitude reporting), or Mode S (for all intents and purposes ADS-B if you include a position source).

Airspace is referred to with "classes". 

You are 100% correct that Mode A/C transponders do not show up on ADS-B "in" devices though

[BurnieM]

Some background on The Oaks mid air;

 

I believe both aircraft had radios capable of monitoring 2 frequencies. It is unknown whether either of them were doing so.

One aircraft was departing Camden and the other was in the circuit at The Oaks.

In this circumstance I would be monitoring only the tower/CTAF frequency. I do not know what either of these pilots were monitoring.

As it neared The Oaks it appears that the Cessna did not transmit on The Oaks CTAF. The reason is unknown.

I do not believe that also monitoring the area frequency would have changed the outcome of this incident, mainly because neither aircraft were transmitting on this frequency.

 

The Jabiru had a Skyecho and an iPad EFB.

This would have given visual alerts of other ADS-B/Skyecho equipped aircraft. It is unknown whether it could also give audio alerts.

I believe the Cessna had a mode C transponder.

While it seems likely that ATC could electronically see both aircraft, neither aircraft could 'see' the other.

 

Video recovered from a Gopro in the Jabiru showed the Cessna was visible at a low angle for 8 seconds prior to the collision.

The Jabiru pilot did not seem aware of the other aircraft.

 

If one aircraft had ADS-B in/out with audio alerts and the other aircraft had at least ADS-B out I believe this collision could have been avoided.

I do not believe ADS-B displayed on a screen would have been adequate when both pilots had a number of other things that required their attention.

 

I believe an ADS-B transponder had already been purchased for the Cessna and was to be fitted in the weeks after this incident.

 

 

Edited November 22 by BurnieM

[KRviator]

Just on those ADS-B transponders, yes, there are ADS-B out transponders, and yes, there are ADS-B receivers, however  different manufacturers have different feature sets and it is worthwhile comparing them in depth before you spend your coin.

I fly behind Dynon in the RV and have ADS-B out using their transponder for 10 years with good results, however their ADS-B in system doesn't announce azimuth or range to an identified threat, it simply announces "TRAFFIC!" in your headset and leaves it to you to find the intruder and determine their 3D position in space and where they're going. To that end, I am leaning towards Garmin's G3X, or at the very least, a Garmin GNX375/GTX345R transponder as part of the upgrade for the new chariot. The reason for that is it provides better alerting by way of announcing “Traffic, 10 o’clock, same altitude, 2 miles" - straight away, that tells you where to look without having to go eyes-in to determine where the intruder is. Even without traffic displayed on-screen, you're alerted to where it is, the screen will tell you what they're doing (climbing, crossing L->R, etc).

This sort of functionality is not cheap, a Dynon transponder goes for around $4,500AUD, a GTX345R for $10,500 and a GNX375 for nearly $15,000, but if you need to upgrade to a C146 GNSS anyway (I do!), then that offsets some of the cost, a GPS175 is $10K, so between that and a Dynon transponder, vs a GNX for $15K, the difference is about 1AMU. I'll gladly pay that to have spoken traffic alerts.

[BurnieM]

Have you looked at a Garmin GTX45R with builtin Gps, I believe this is a little cheaper than a GTX345R.

 

You can get both of these without a GPS if you already have a Garmin IFR navigator. If you do not have a Garmin ADAHRS you will also need an altitude encoder.

 

Having an audio warning "Traffic 2 oclock high less than 1 mile" is worth its weight in gold but almost as expensive 😀

 

Edited November 23 by BurnieM

[KRviator]

4 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

Have you looked at a Garmin GTX45R with builtin Gps, I believe this is a little cheaper than a GTX345R.

 

You can get both of these without a GPS if you already have a Garmin IFR navigator. If you do not have a Garmin ADAHRS you will also need an altitude encoder.

 

I still need a GNSS navigator of some description for IFR, and think the cheapest way for a C146 navigator (not just position source for ADS-B), ADS-B out and ADS-B in (with spoken advisories) is a single GNX375. A GTX45R can have it's own GPS position source, but adding a GPS175 gives the required functionality, but for ~$4K more than the -375.

[skippydiesel]

 

"Class C ".......... "typically transponders are referred to by mode, not class"

 

Yes. My bad. Dont know what I was thinking of.

 

While we are on the correct grammar /technical terminology;

 

 ".............there are ADS-B out transponders, and yes, there are ADS-B receivers,.." 

 

My understanding of the word  "transponder" is that it is made up from transmit - respond. So transponder refers to a device for receiving a radio signal and automatically transmitting a diffrent signal in response.

 

In aviation the same devise (if so capable/enabled) both receives & transmits  -ADS-B IN/OUT. The SE2 does this.

 

So your description, above is, when transponder & receivers is used, is incorrect, as receiver is redundant. That is unless you are referring to a seperate device/system altogether.😈

[BurnieM]

 

4 hours ago, KRviator said:

I still need a GNSS navigator of some description for IFR, and think the cheapest way for a C146 navigator (not just position source for ADS-B), ADS-B out and ADS-B in (with spoken advisories) is a single GNX375. A GTX45R can have it's own GPS position source, but adding a GPS175 gives the required functionality, but for ~$4K more than the -375.

The GNX 375 looks like a good option but not cheap.

What mapping does it come with ?

 

I see the GNX 375 annual subscription bundle is US$599 per annum and comes with;

Garmin Navdata, 

Obstacles, 

Safetaxi, 

Airport directory, 

Terrain, 

Basemap and

Frequency databases

 

 

 

Garmin GNX 375

GPS Navigator with ADS-B in and out

Bluetooth with flight plan transfer to/from your EFB and traffic to your EFB.

[Roscoe]

On 21/11/2025 at 8:43 PM, skippydiesel said:

I recently attended a meeting where the airspace changes to for the new airport, variously known as Western Sydney International (Nancy Bird Walton) Airport (IATA: WSI, ICAO: YSWS), also known as Badgerys Creek Airport or Western Sydney Airport, were discussed.

 

Cant say I grasped all of the changes put forward however this is what I "took away";

 

For VFR aircraft wishing to transit north/south & visa versa through the Sydney Basin.

 

There will be a new North & South Lane established, that will run from the vicinity of Campbelltown to Bankstown.

 

Aircraft using the exiting N & S Lanes (Paramatta - Brooklyn Bridge) will access the above via  Bankstown.

 

Now for the killer - To use the new Lanes will require;

 

• The lodging of a flight plan
• The PIC holing a Controlled Airspace Endorsement

 

Something Else;

 

• RAA approval to train and endorse Recreational Pilots, to enter Controlled Airspace, will be granted before Christmas (this year?).
•  
• The existing Victor 1 rout is unchanged.
•  
• The current Camden Inbound Reporting point, for aircraft coming from the West ,will be moved about 3 Nm north (Hayters Sawmill) to encourage aircraft away from The Oaks circuit area.

 

😈

 

 

Skippy did they mention MEDICAL requirements at the meeting?

[BurnieM]

I vaguely remember class 5 medical being required for RAAus Controlled Airspace endorsement.

Not a big deal; 1 hour online course then self declaration with $10 fee. Yeah same as what we already do but with a $10 fee.

And you will need to get an ARN first.

 

Found it;

https://www.australianflying.com.au/latest/casa-grants-class-c-and-d-access-to-sport-and-recreational-pilots

 

Edited November 24 by BurnieM

[Roscoe]

13 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

I vaguely remember class 5 medical being required for RAAus Controlled Airspace endorsement.

Not a big deal; 1 hour online course then self declaration with $10 fee. Yeah same as what we already do but with a $10 fee.

And you will need to get an ARN first.

 

Found it;

https://www.australianflying.com.au/latest/casa-grants-class-c-and-d-access-to-sport-and-recreational-pilots

 

Yeah now I recall it!

Thanks.